Craftsperson?

[Helm]

Given the cap badge features my little pony surely Brony would do the job?

 

[stacker1]

Aye, the Signalman/Signaller get's rolled out.

In any organisation there is always somebody climbing up the promotion ladder trying to make a name for themselves, making a big statement, fucking off everybody below them in the foodchain, but in this case I shouldn't think that our newest soldiers in the Corps give a rats arrse about the change. They have a completely different mindset to us old fogeys. The old sweats will have a moan, crack on and finish their engagements still moaning. Twas ever thus. Anyway, It's their Army, not ours.

I willing to bet its not them asking for the change though. Most of the (few)women I knew in the REME weren't interested the last time this was raised.
One reason why its a standard excuse from officers (young vs old) is that the young in the Army rarely think about whats going on so don't complain as much. Some examples being pay cut 2000 or pension changes, the young don't know what they are missing out on, don't complain and if they don't complain then they must support it...
I can almost guarantee this will just be an opportunity for certain individuals to show how modern and progressive they are.

 

[Arte_et_Marte]

I willing to bet its not them asking for the change though. Most of the (few)women I knew in the REME weren't interested the last time this was raised.
One reason why its a standard excuse from officers (young vs old) is that the young in the Army rarely think about whats going on so don't complain as much. Some examples being pay cut 2000 or pension changes, the young don't know what they are missing out on, don't complain and if they don't complain then they must support it...
I can almost guarantee this will just be an opportunity for certain individuals to show how modern and progressive they are.

Of course it's not the juniors asking for change, and you are correct in that at least one serving lass thinks it's a waste of time. Can you think back to when you were a young soldier, you wouldn't have asked for a change like this, crikey, you wouldn't have asked for any changes, you would have just done what you were told and got on with it, same as I did.

I agree again that this has nothing to do with serving soldiers, it's an officer making a name, showing how cool and diversive they can be. Putting out 'feeler' letters, or a letter in the Craftsman magazine (oooh, will that name have to be changed as well?) is a waste of time. A referendum in the military? I think not. High command will do as they see fit and that'll be the end of the matter.

 

[ExREME.TECH]

Ask the ex Colonel-in-Chief what he thinks...job done

 

[Ninja_Turtle]

R Signals went from Signalman to Signaller and nobody lost their sh1t.

 

[Rapierman]

, it's an officer making a name, showing how cool and diversive they can be.

Exactly what he said.
It's always the same, just the same in any board meeting in civvy street, some brown nose throbber comes up with a bright idea, those above agree and say go see what the guys think. Who inevitably don't particularly like change, don't give a flying or generally just happy if their pay is right and they can get their 48 hour pass signed.
Meanwhile said throbber gets Employee of the month, £20 Argos voucher and half a day off.
All policies and procedures need re-writing to reflect this epic change to the way ahead of the business model but two days later not a single thing has changed. Waste of time and resources.

I think maybe the next in line might have to be Her Majesty "The Queen" , well it could certainly be misconstrued in certain circles nowadays, CEO GB PLC?

When's all this going to stop, no you are not a hygiene technician you are a forking cleaner! Refuse disposal operator, no a binman simple as.

 

[chimera]

Foreperson and Yeoperson.

Shall I address the invoice to HQ SOinC?

You could do, but as HQ SOinC ceased to exist in 2012 (when the Arms Directors* were culled) you may not get a reply straight away.

* DRAC, DRA, EinC(A), DInf, SOinC, DEME, DRLC, DInt, DAAvn. For reasons nobody at the time understood, D SPS and D ETS survived as 1* "Heads of Arm".

 

[Kroneit44]

Foreperson and Yeoperson.

Shall I address the invoice to HQ SOinC?

HQ SOinC? I think you'll need a Delorean to find that mate!!!

 

[chimera]

HQ SOinC? I think you'll need a Delorean to find that mate!!!

Too slow!

 

[Kroneit44]

Too slow!

Seen, that was the end of the blessed Corps (apart from when the White Helmets went) in my opinion.

 

[solomon88]

This was posted on one of the REME facebook groups (there are several)

....The Discussion
Given the competitive environment above, why wouldn’t we consider ways to remove any negative influences? The audience that I am focused on is the Generation ‘A’ technically minded females who will expect their world to be equal by design. Those that scroll through the Army website and, when offered the chance to be a Sapper, a Signaller or a Craftsman, subconsciously avoid ‘Craftsman’.....

Noticed this bit in the quote. I don't know how today's young people think, but none of the "technically minded females" I've met have this attitude, they just get on with it.

 

[solomon88]

To add a few more thoughts - times are definitely changing, I now find it unremarkable to meet a "female" in a technical role. I don't actually like the word "female" being used like this, there's no need to highlight a difference that really doesn't matter.

 

[GPH]

I don't see why 'Technician' can't cover it. Reverting to 'Private' (Although we were called that until we passed initial trade training) just seems lazy.

Although, I have seen the original notification that the Mail refers to, it is not an official notice and it isn't signed off by anybody other than "Colonel REME"

I'll dig it out.

ETA:

View attachment 542163

Talk about a manipulative survey, “you can vote for the below alternatives of add your own“. How about just leave it as it is? The women who worked for me in my workshop were not interested in being called Craftswomen, they saw Craftsman as gender free and wanted to retain the rank as it was. These survey buffoons have nothing better to do than to re-invent the wheel continually. Anyone who been involved in polls or surveys will know the first question asked is ‘what result do you want to receive’ before the poll or survey is generated. Most females these days don’t like the ‘ess’ added as in Manageress etc. we have have Managers and Facility Managers in my company, no titles have been changed to accommodate gender, although the option is there for those who wish to be titled so, we have never had anyone use the term. Most are it as derogatory to differently titled to their male colleagues.
However as is normally the case in these matters, the decision has more than likely already been taken and the survey is purely lip service.
The same Colonel wrote to REME Association members saying he did not want our opion or the opion of anyone had previous served in order to avoid a backlash? He also stated that the term ‘Mechanic’ is “considered by some to be old fashioned or agricultural”, hence they also want to find a new name for Vehicle Mechanics? Complete b****cks, especially when considering the Corp is called the Royal Electrical and Mechanical Engineers ? With that mindset they will need a new name for the Corps. The whole thing is ‘woke’ orientated and a complete waste of time and energy, there must be more important matters to consider.

 

[GPH]

Noticed this bit in the quote. I don't know how today's young people think, but none of the "technically minded females" I've met have this attitude, they just get on with it.

Complete crap and negative propaganda to support a pre ordained decision in my view. He has probably met a handful of recruits who are more worried about his rank than voicing their true opinion

 

[Rapierman]

I continue, what happens if a Yeoman of The Guard at The Tower of London is Vegan? Is He a Plant-based proteineater?
Just boiling my pi55 all this PC shite.
I reckon the best way forward would be to round all the lefty forkers up, tell them there is a big gathering on Hankley Common (Soft dig, sandy as) tell them there is free Quinoa salad and green tea. Give them all a good shoeing and bury chest deep. Just so the crows etc can have a go. You love nature, guess what it loves you too!

 

[PapaGolf]

It’s not “PC shite” it’s just progression. Why is it not an issue if ‘females’ aren’t bothered? On that basis it must be ok to use the N word because black people do

 

[GPH]

It’s not “PC shite” it’s just progression. Why is it not an issue if ‘females’ aren’t bothered? On that basis it must be ok to use the N word because black people do

No not really as the ‚N‘ word is a form of abuse, and the last I heard ‘Craftsman‘ was never a form of abuse unless you’ve heard otherwise. It is entirely as you put it ‚PC shite‘. I have women working in my company as Managers, Facility and Project Managers we don’t have Manageresses anymore it is outdated and the male word has been adopted by females also without any great drama, similarly a few years back, actressess wished to just be called actors and by their own insistence. So where is the issue with using Craftsman for both sexes? How do you have female definition for Craftmanship, there simply isn’t one as it not gender specific, however it defines skill quality in a selected trade by whomever applies that trade. Therefore by derivative Craftsman can also be gender neutral as indeed manager is know. As I have previously mentioned the females working in my workshop were more than happy with the Craftsman title and refused to have it modified for them In any form. “Progression” does not necessarily mean dropping everything and any tradition just because you can or you feel obliged to by some woke movement, not all change is good or is without negative ramification.

 

[GPH]

To add a few more thoughts - times are definitely changing, I now find it unremarkable to meet a "female" in a technical role. I don't actually like the word "female" being used like this, there's no need to highlight a difference that really doesn't matter.

I agree entirely

 

[DITA]

You could do, but as HQ SOinC ceased to exist in 2012 (when the Arms Directors* were culled) you may not get a reply straight away.

* DRAC, DRA, EinC(A), DInf, SOinC, DEME, DRLC, DInt, DAAvn. For reasons nobody at the time understood, D SPS and D ETS survived as 1* "Heads of Arm".

Haven't worked alongside a Signals Regt for that long, this passed me by! Especially considering my own survived the cull

 

[Nimbus]

Foreperson and Yeoperson.

Shall I address the invoice to HQ SOinC?

I’m looking forward to Major and Majorette.