CR advice

Discussion in 'Army Pay, Claims & JPA' started by Northern Monkey, Feb 10, 2008.

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  1. I'm after a bit of advice, chaps and chapesses; I was posted about 4 months ago and after badgering my old CC have just received a copy of my CR. I wasn't expecting a recommendation, but the grading was below that which I expected, nor in my humble opinion do the grading boxes reflect the grade.
    Anyway, what are my options, not having had the opportunity to discuss the write-up with my old boss? Initially, I'm proposing an email to my ex-boss with a follow-up phone call. I intend if possible to read up on the MS Guide to Soldiers Confidential Reports if I can find an electronic copy.
    I'm away on ranges for the next week. Should I use that time for reflection and consideration, or should I first email my old boss with a brief email warning him of my intent, or just hit him when I get back?
    Much of what he said in the write-up concentrates on his perception of my behaviour off duty (a fracas in the Sgts Mess, resulting in a punch being thrown-not by me, but as a result of a joking comment made to a new acquaintance which unintentionally touched a raw nerve. I misjudged the situation and attempted to put it right, resulting in the flare up. No AGAI etc resulted) As an aside I also take issue with the use of the word "preaches" which in the context used is open to interpretation. The write up by my OC is more accurate and reflective than my Pl Comd (RAF incidentally) who will I'm sure argue he knows me better!
    The write up also states that I was too keen to defend my lads, (an admirable quality he says!) bringing me into conflict with the Pl Comd. Whilst forthright with my opinions in the right forum (Pl management meetings etc) I do not recall any outright conflict with my ex-boss, nor do I recall any circumstances where I had to defend the boys.
    On a separate note has anyone ever come across the idea that SNCOs can self-certificate for short periods of sickness? I'm convinced this was taught or mentioned on my CLM?!!
  2. Did you receive a Mid Year Appraisal? If not then you have good grounds for redressing your report. If you have access to Defence Intranet, check out JSP 757 or the Army Electronic Library for the MS Guide to Soldiers Confidential Reports. If you're still uncertain speak your Desk Officer in Glasgow for advice.
  3. In the main I agree with Doubter; however, I would caution against phoning your Desk Officer direct but would recommend you speak to your RCMO - having been one I can assure you that he will give impartial advice outside of your direct CoC and also provide you with the various options.
  4. Although I have no idea what your 1st RO is like, I would suggest that a lot more would be achieved by discussing your issues on the phone or, if geography allows, in person. A chat with your 2nd RO either before or after wouldn't go amiss. Make a note of the points you intend to raise and note everything that is discussed and if you approach this with an open, pragmatic attitude, then you may get the result you want. Often the sticking point can be a recommendation for promotion or not and as you weren’t expecting a rec, then your 1st RO may amend his text and grades to your satisfaction. If you didn’t get a MYA, then you really do have your 1st RO banged to rights and you may want to remind him of that fact! Failing this, you can consider either a representation to argue your case or a redress of grievance as noted by Doubter.
    Good luck.
  5. And a very good point about using your RCMO.
  6. This, you can do for one day without going to the med centre.

    On the other subject, don't give your old CoC a weeks notice of your intetions, it will only give them time to find back-up stories or (any) evidence that may be there.
  7. Thanks for the solid advice guys. I will tackle the issue this week
    Heid - have you got a source for your info?
  8. The_Duke

    The_Duke LE Moderator

    Tread warily if you chose to follow the "if you did not have an MYA you have him bang to rights" advice.

    If the facts you plan to redress (remember you can redress facts, but not the RO's opinions) occured after the MYA should have been done then they could not possibly have been shown in it anyway.

    A lack of MYA indcates poor career management by your 1 RO (if that is the case) but does not give a total "get out of jail free" card.

    If you were not expecting a recommend, then you are in no worse a position, as you still need 2 clear recommends prior to promotion. Also, your 2 RO's comments are given more weight than your 1 RO's by anyone reading the report for promotion purposes.

    It may well be frustrating for you, but as suggested seek advice from your RCMO or an officer of 2 RO rank if you can before rushing in to anything.
  10. In my world it is actually a minimum of 2 years in substantive rank and a single latest recommendation for promotion to get you on the board for consideration. Having had 1st hand experience of promotion boards, I firmly believe that both reporting officers' comments must be given equal weight if one is to achieve the full picture on an individual and score him/her appropriately. Good luck NM.
  11. The_Duke

    The_Duke LE Moderator

    smgsniper - I apologise. My error, it is indeed 2 years substansive and one positive recommend.

    If he was not expecting, and has not got a recommend then he is in no worse a position than he expected to be, as per my original post.

    I have also been involved in reviews for promotion, and the views of the 2RO certainly carried more weight than the first RO, who could well be a 2Lt straight out of RMAS without the breadth of experience and exposure to soldier's performance that the 2RO brings. On the officers' promotion material I have to hand, it specifically states that the recommend comes from the 2ROs section.
  12. Duke, much of my problem comes from the 1st ROs comments. I dilslike being able to answer face to face his comments and asking him to qualify his opinion. Some things boil down to principle!
  13. The_Duke

    The_Duke LE Moderator


    I do not doubt it for a minute. An unfair or negative report from anyone grates, and I can understand the need to question it.

    My words of caution were based on practicality. The MYA issue is something only you can answer, as only you know if you got one, and what the timeline is. It is not as simple as "he dosn't have a leg to stand on".

    You should certainly have the opportunity to discuss the CR with your 1 RO. It is then that you need to have a clear idea what you want to achieve. The redress system works well for facts, less so for opinions. If you want to argue on opinions, then make sure that you have a well balanced argument, and have discussed the potential implications with the RCMO.
  14. NM - You now seek out advice from a forum that in the main deals with admin issues, and yet you have slated that trade (that of the military clerk) consistantly in other posts.

    Anyway, that aside, as you are more than likely aware the course of redress is the new procedure which came into affect 01 Jan 08 (Tri Service Complaints Procedure), it is detailed in a DIN that came out round about the same time as it's inception, prehaps someone on here can give you the reference.

    This is your only method of complaint once you have been through the advice given above, esspecialy as Duke states, in the main the complaints procedure deals with factual issues and not opinions. If you want it on record that you do not agree with a report, go down this line.

    If the 2nd RO disagrees with the first they will say so, or should, in Part 2, the same applies to Part 3 if appliciable.
  15. Duke, No problem at all and I entirely see where you are coming from with your comments. I think NM now has had a lot of very sage advice to consider.

    NM - best of luck.