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CQM Range Management and/or OBUA instructor/SC

#1
Sorry for the weird title but trying a big net to catch answers


I a, looking for any info (DIN, Trg Team, Location etc) on courses that will qualify someone/people to run said events namely


1, The ability to run a CQM range (assuming the person has at least Stage 1-3 and SAA) I was told there was a course ran a Pirbright but I can't find any reference on DII


2, The ability to run Dry and Blank trg in an OBUA environment (not M qual or BCCS Instr)

I keep hearing about these courses but I'm fcuked if I can find them.

Either DII is fricking impossible to find something or I am a complete biff

Cheers for any response
 
#2
oh look, no answers

Well I have found the info on the UOIC course (Urban Operations Instructors Course DIN 2013DIN07-038 ) its just the CQM I'm looking for now
 
#5
run a course or going to run a course ?

I ask as I saw that there was Staff training early next year so I am assuming that it would be on the 14/15 calender
 
#6
oh look, no answers

Well I have found the info on the UOIC course (Urban Operations Instructors Course DIN 2013DIN07-038 ) its just the CQM I'm looking for now
The qualification to run a CQM shoot on a purpose built range is the SA (B) (90) qualification. The RCO, safety supervisors and fires must all be competent in CQM beforehand. SAA instructors can obtain the information on CQM techniques by attending a CQM Instructors course at OSTT 3 Div, based in Pirbright, or by simply reading the information in Pam 5. If in doubt call the staff in Pirbright.
 
#7
The qualification to run a CQM shoot on a purpose built range is the SA (B) (90) qualification. The RCO, safety supervisors and fires must all be competent in CQM beforehand. SAA instructors can obtain the information on CQM techniques by attending a CQM Instructors course at OSTT 3 Div, based in Pirbright, or by simply reading the information in Pam 5. If in doubt call the staff in Pirbright.
Not in the range orders at Lydd! It clearly states when signing on that the RCO must be at the correct level of competence, Stage 4&5. I ran the CQM at Lydd in January this year.


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#9
Not in the range orders at Lydd! It clearly states when signing on that the RCO must be at the correct level of competence, Stage 4&5. I ran the CQM at Lydd in January this year.


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For any LF practice contained in the AOSP and fired on a purpose built range the 'B' qual is sufficient. if you are the RCO for a LF practice on a LFTT range (or perhaps on a standard range where an RDA template has been applied), then you will need the SA (A) (90) qualification. The same applies for any facility considered to be outside the scope of a 'B' qual RCO. Whatever, Range Standing Orders take precedence.
 
#10
The qualification to run a CQM shoot on a purpose built range is the SA (B) (90) qualification. The RCO, safety supervisors and fires must all be competent in CQM beforehand. SAA instructors can obtain the information on CQM techniques by attending a CQM Instructors course at OSTT 3 Div, based in Pirbright, or by simply reading the information in Pam 5. If in doubt call the staff in Pirbright.
Cheers , this backs up what I have heard by 2 other sources but with the detail I needed , now with a pointer I shall attack DII again


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#11
I did my SA(B)90 last year and the CQM question raised its head then. The Small arms school guys said that if you had completed the full CQM range package previously you could take it on a purpose built range. If not they alluded to some sort of bridging cse.
 
#12
To the OP, all the answers you seek are contained in PAM21. For what you are asking, for live firing FIBUA type ranges, the RCO will need the SA(A)90 qualification (stages 4&5 in old money), your safety supervisors will need to be SA(C)90 (I think) (I believe a proportion can be authorised rather than qualified to this standard, see PAM21). The troops being trained will need to have completed up to the APWT and then the progression of field firing shoots as detailed in AOSP Vol1 before going onto anything exotic like bespoke FIBUA ranges.

In sum it is quite a stringent requirement (rightly so). It is difficult but not impossible to achieve outside regular infantry Bns. Most regular units will do this at BATUS/BATUK/etc or during MST, it is frankly out of reach of non-mobilised TA units due to the time taken for the progression of training (needed to keep people from killing themselves/each other).

Call SASC TAGUK to ask about courses. SA(A)90 is normally done as part of either PCD or PSBC at Brecon but there might be a stand alone course run occasionally.

As to blank training, again PAM21 should be your guide. I believe you just need to be SA(M) qualified to conduct this training, but training areas may also require DCCIs/FIBUA instructors (or whatever they are called now). Again TAG UK or the range officer should be able to advise.


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#15
Isn't the A Qual required to plan, but you can *conduct* with the B Qual?
No, you can only conduct field firing ranges with an A qual. I believe there used to be a different qualification that allowed you to conduct but not to plan, but I think this was removed a few years ago (if it ever existed).
 

The_Duke

LE
Moderator
#16
Yes, it existed. It was the TA qualification done in 2 weeks which strangely enough focussed on the safe running of LFTT which had been planned by someone else with an A qual (ie SPSI or TM). The last I heard, it was still valid and being run.

B-C,

You are out of date or ill informed on a lot of this stuff. Perhaps you should stick to tanks?
 
#19
I hold the B Qual and have DS'd on live field firing on more than one occasion of late.

A Qual; plan and conduct. B Qual; conduct only.

Per His Grace's comment: B_C, you seem to be out of date; knowing Welly Head, he is a bit slow and unless you say "I think that / I gather" he'll take it as Gospel.
 
#20
BB, To be fair I referred him to PAM21 (and TAG UK).

Duke, I may be out of date (but only by about 3 years). Believe it or not I do actually know a little about dismounted field firing and wider training policy.

Officers/NCOs who hold only the SA(B)90 qualification are not permitted to conduct field firing nor may they act as safety staff during field firing (unless "authorised").

I didn't know the "conduct but not plan" course still existed, there certainly was a move to get rid of it; although I personally think there is some merit in retaining it for some in both the regular and territorial armies.


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