Cpls. Derek Wood and David Howes

#21
At least 1 of that pair was a "big it up" mong. After that incident the word went out (orders) shoot the fcku who you like provided there is a threat to life. Defeated NI terrorism in the end until Blair created an international huggy amnesty for terrorist murders. History is the judge.
You do not have a clue about the circumstance of this incident, neither was such an order "Sent out".

You original post and subsequent postings on this thread are a disgrace

Archie
 
#22
As tragic as this incident was, and regardless of the ramblings and rantings on this thread, as it was thirty years ago does it really constitute Current Affairs, News and Analysis content?
 
#23
As tragic as this incident was, and regardless of the ramblings and rantings on this thread, as it was thirty years ago does it really constitute Current Affairs, News and Analysis content?
Analysis maybe, possibly with this airing tonight
The Funeral Murders
9pm, BBC Two

With politicians dangerously cavalier about the Good Friday agreement, this Vanessa Engle film is a grim reminder of everything we imagined we had left behind. In 1988, loyalist Michael Stone attacked the funeral of three IRA members. At the funeral of Kevin Brady – who was killed in the pursuit of Stone – two British soldiers were dragged from their car, beaten and shot dead. Engle hears testimony from all sides and discovers that, while the shooting is over, the battle of competing narratives rages on – the entrenched rhetoric echoes the tit-for-tat horror of the era. Phil Harrison
Monday’s best TV: The Funeral Murders; Electric Dreams
 
#24
Assholes and opinions, everyone has them but not everyone airs them.
Don't make it what's it not mate.
It's just his personal opinion.
For posterity.

————————————————————-

I remember seeing it on tv in the Mess. Some people were laughing as they thought it was loyalists. It then became clear they were squaddies. RIP lads.
 

184461

On ROPS
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#25
[QUOTE
Assholes and opinions, everyone has them but not everyone airs them.
Don't make it what's it not mate.
It's just his personal opinion.
.[/QUOTE]
Only because it's true.
Maybe something you may like to consider...now you can do one and go back to your day shift.
 
#26
I’m a child of the Republic born in the early 80s. I’m old enough to remember that what is happening in NI now is 1000 times better than what was happening then (not that I want their be any terrorism).

I’m old enough to remember the programmes on UTV being interrupted asking for key holders to go to wherever the bomb scare was.

2 incidents stand out for me above all others as truly barbaric acts of savagery (I was young at the time but I remember seeing them on the news):

- Michael Stones grenade attack on the funeral (to me it doesn’t matter who’s funeral it was at the end of the day it was someone’s funeral and I’m sure not all the family were involved in terrorism)
- These 2 poor guys being dragged from a car and murdered (it didn’t matter to the crowd who they were, they weren’t given a chance).

It is a good and a bad thing that the young people of Ireland, the UK and NI know little of NI terrorism. The GFA was 10 years ago.

What’s the bad thing I hear you say? They don’t realise how important it is to prevent a return to violence on this scale because they haven’t experienced it. It will also be easier to radicalise them (as violent republicans/loyalists).

Rip Cpls Wood and Howes
 
#27
I’m a child of the Republic born in the early 80s. I’m old enough to remember that what is happening in NI now is 1000 times better than what was happening then (not that I want their be any terrorism).

I’m old enough to remember the programmes on UTV being interrupted asking for key holders to go to wherever the bomb scare was.

2 incidents stand out for me above all others as truly barbaric acts of savagery (I was young at the time but I remember seeing them on the news):

- Michael Stones grenade attack on the funeral (to me it doesn’t matter who’s funeral it was at the end of the day it was someone’s funeral and I’m sure not all the family were involved in terrorism)
- These 2 poor guys being dragged from a car and murdered (it didn’t matter to the crowd who they were, they weren’t given a chance).

It is a good and a bad thing that the young people of Ireland, the UK and NI know little of NI terrorism. The GFA was 10 years ago.

What’s the bad thing I hear you say? They don’t realise how important it is to prevent a return to violence on this scale because they haven’t experienced it. It will also be easier to radicalise them (as violent republicans/loyalists).

Rip Cpls Wood and Howes
It's also easier to feed them a false version of what happened and try to re-write history in the minds of the young. Both Republican and Loyalist terrorists have been busy doing that.
 
#28
Yes. I also knew the pathetic NI security advisory policy of the day. This was an event waiting to happen like the coach bombing of the RGJ bus in the same year. A policy of turning a blind eye to terrorist acts is a "bring it on" to the terrorist murderers. To quote Lord Lowrey "the final court of justice" was the way forward. Now look at the world we have inherited as a result of not following good advice.
My bold - please explain precisely how the 'pathetic NI security advisory policy of the day' was responsible?
 

184461

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#29
My bold - please explain precisely how the 'pathetic NI security advisory policy of the day' was responsible?
At the end of the day OOB should have been checked before the PU from BIA.
The fact that there was a large Taig funeral on the go for Kev Brady in Andytown would have been very well known by everybody in any JCUNI/green army ops room.
According to many Del didn't check OOB before leaving to get Dave.
The reasoning for why they were in that area died with them.

I don't think that any NI security advisor policy was responsible but I'm happy to listen to a different POV on the matter.
 
#30
As tragic as this incident was, and regardless of the ramblings and rantings on this thread, as it was thirty years ago does it really constitute Current Affairs, News and Analysis content?
You are turning into Jarrod.










And Sluggy 8-O
 
#31
Security policy when I was there back in the seventies was that if someone was carrying a weapon or were threatening your well being or the well being of others, you were obliged to shoot them.

Did that change?
 
#32
At the end of the day OOB should have been checked before the PU from BIA.
The fact that there was a large Taig funeral on the go for Kev Brady in Andytown would have been very well known by everybody in any JCUNI/green army ops room.
According to many Del didn't check OOB before leaving to get Dave.
The reasoning for why they were in that area died with them.

I don't think that any NI security advisor policy was responsible but I'm happy to listen to a different POV on the matter.
I know - that's my point. I want to hear his opinion on the policy.
 
#34
Yes. I also knew the pathetic NI security advisory policy of the day. This was an event waiting to happen like the coach bombing of the RGJ bus in the same year. A policy of turning a blind eye to terrorist acts is a "bring it on" to the terrorist murderers. To quote Lord Lowrey "the final court of justice" was the way forward. Now look at the world we have inherited as a result of not following good advice.
The Ballygawley bus bomb wasn’t RGJ, it was our Light Division brothers in the Light Infantry.
Ballygawley bus bombing - Wikipedia

As for your other remarks, I would respectfully say that this isn’t the time or the place.
 
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skid2

LE
Book Reviewer
#35
That particular event. The tactics had changed. Instead of a security force presence at the funeral/ burial. The whole area was ringed. it being after the Michael Stone thing at Milltown. Anyone coming in from the outside and not being a bus load or vehicle full of republican mourners/supporters was stopped and looked at.

The locals initially thought it another attack by a ‘loyalist death squad’. I remember the day, they were already inside the cordon and for reasons best known to themselves went for a look or got lost.

Had they come in from the outside they would have been stopped at the exterior cordon. The reason I remember it was I was heading over that way and there was no way in. I could have got in but I couldn’t be bothered talking my way through the cordon so I went for a cup of tea instead and thats what I was doing when all hell broke loose.
Fwiw, any criticism of the priest involved. I would say is largely unfounded and unfair.
 
#36
Security policy when I was there back in the seventies was that if someone was carrying a weapon or were threatening your well being or the well being of others, you were obliged to shoot them.

Did that change?
The basic instinct for self preservation ‘tends' to overrule orders and procedures, much as training is there to try to instil instinctive obedience to them.

Faced with imminent death the choice was to shoot some and certainly die, or not to take life and just possibly escape with a near death mob beating and possible rescue: they 'may well' have been aware of the Army Helicopter monitoring the event and which subsequently recorded their appalling ends, and chose to possibly hold the mob at bay for a brief period.
Pure speculation of course.

There also remains the speculation of the single chambered round and no/empty mag postulated by Sean Hartnett.

Funny that the other reference to 'show boating’ comes from 'Sean Hartnett' and the Irish News. The Irish born man who allegedly tried to join the IRA, then became a member of JCU-NI, and subsequently wrote ‘Charlie One.'

Ring any bells @Tyto Alba

On Thuaidh
 
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#37
The basic instinct for self preservation ‘tends' to overrule orders and procedures, much as training is there to try to instil instinctive obedience to them.

Faced with imminent death the choice was to shoot some and certainly die, or not to take life and just possibly escape with a near death mob beating and possible rescue: they 'may well' have been aware of the Army Helicopter monitoring the event and which subsequently recorded their appalling ends, and chose to possibly hold the mob at bay for a brief period.
Pure speculation of course.

There also remains the speculation of the single chambered round and no/empty mag postulated by Sean Hartnett.

Funny that the other reference to 'show boating’ comes from 'Sean Hartnett' and the Irish News. The Irish born man who allegedly tried to join the IRA, then became a member of JCU-NI, and subsequently wrote ‘Charlie One.'

Ring any bells @Tyto Alba

On Thuaidh
I take your point but I wasn't criticising the two corporals.

Other posters have mentioned the overall security policy being to blame at least in part for these terrible deaths and my point was that when did it become policy to not shoot if you were threatened.

I'm guessing it never was policy to not shoot in the correct circumstances.
 

184461

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#38
Funny that the other reference to 'show boating’ comes from 'Sean Hartnett' and the Irish News. The Irish born man who allegedly tried to join the IRA, then became a member of JCU-NI, and subsequently wrote ‘Charlie One.'
Charlie One blows the lid completely off JCUNI and the SCTs.
He's mega in breach of the OSA and can never set foot back on the mainland/NI or he'll be lifted.
HMG tried to stop the publication but it just aided the circulation of his book which is usually how it goes.
The back story and incidentals are a bit much and far-fetched as he was only a bleep but the classified shit he discloses is gen, damaging and embarrassing.
Whoever DV'd and cleared Hartnett for the SCTs was nuts.
An average book but lots of interesting snippets that only a small % knew about.
The author was in 10yrs+ after the Del and Dave episode so his lnowledge is 2nd/3rd hand int but that's all most of us get anyway.
Minister of Defence asks publishers to halt distribution of new book Charlie One
I was always amazed about the number of signallers attached.. There were tonnes of 'em.
 
#40
Went to area of South Link earlier today. Two poppies were laid in the car park of what was the waste ground at Penny Lane. I've no idea how long they'll last before the elements or possibly some of the locals remove them. Hopefully some respect might be shown. I'd posted before on a similar thread that the week of the murders was the same week I swore my oath of allegiance, subsequently beginning training at 11 Sigs only a few months later. Certa Cito gents.
 

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