Cpls. Derek Wood and David Howes

Cold_Collation

LE
Book Reviewer
The raw footage early on was horrific. News agencies wouldn't show anything like it today. That's both a good and bad thing - if people got to see what we're up against sometimes, they'd realise what needs to be done at times. On the other hand, seeing and not being in any way able to change things upset me for a very long time afterwards. I know I'm far from alone in that.

Again, like others, I'm appalled at the politically inspired moves going on currently to re-write history such that Republican terrorists were poor, oppressed freedom fighters. They weren't.
 
The Chopper crew would have had a problem trying to do anything at all, for example if they had dropped CS which I believe they may have carried, even that would have been considered as 'interfering in an IRA funeral'. and the Nationalist would have made the most of that as propaganda. I did see Choppers dropping CS Gas in Long Kesh in Oct 74 when one company of us (RRW) were up against it with a few thousand rioting prisoners.

The Padre on site at the murders of the two boys, was seen to try to intervene, I think he failed to affect the baying mob. But he did give the two 'last rights' so I remember.
It emerged recently that the Priest (Father Alec Reid?) was told "**** off, or I'll shoot you too".
History does not relate whether it was Cleeky Clarke or another son of the church
 
It emerged recently that the Priest (Father Alec Reid?) was told "**** off, or I'll shoot you too".
History does not relate whether it was Cleeky Clarke or another son of the church
Cleeky Clarke was Gerry Adam's CP fella for a period. He is the one in the news film battering the side window of the vehicle. Became disillionsed with PIRA /SF as time went by for some perceived lack of attention to his failing health. Died of cancer.
I doubt if Father Alec would have been phased by Cleeky, whom he knew fairly well but in all I don't know.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
Personally, 1988 got worse. A friend in the Light Infantry was killed in Northern Ireland. He was my age, and was one of the first soldiers killed over there who hadn't been born when the current round of Troubles started.
Not a rambling post at all, I was in 1LI then, watched it in the ops room. I may have known your friend.
 
Cleeky Clarke was Gerry Adam's CP fella for a period. He is the one in the news film battering the side window of the vehicle. Became disillionsed with PIRA /SF as time went by for some perceived lack of attention to his failing health. Died of cancer.
I doubt if Father Alec would have been phased by Cleeky, whom he knew fairly well but in all I don't know.
Heard he got fed up of Jarry treating him like a serf
 
Cleeky Clarke was Gerry Adam's CP fella for a period. He is the one in the news film battering the side window of the vehicle. Became disillionsed with PIRA /SF as time went by for some perceived lack of attention to his failing health. Died of cancer.
I doubt if Father Alec would have been phased by Cleeky, whom he knew fairly well but in all I don't know.
At least there is something good to come out of this thread.. do we know what type of cancer? a particularly nasty one I hope. I seem to remember the heli footage being broadcast live or pretty soon after the event on a Saturday lunchtime( ? ) Feral mob is the best way of describing the crowd. Rip to Cpls Howes and Wood
 
At least there is something good to come out of this thread.. do we know what type of cancer? a particularly nasty one I hope. I seem to remember the heli footage being broadcast live or pretty soon after the event on a Saturday lunchtime( ? ) Feral mob is the best way of describing the crowd. Rip to Cpls Howes and Wood
I’m not the type to wish cancer on others, particularly on the Internet (what’s the point), but in the case of this Republican piece of filth, I truly hope his demise was long, drawn out and very, very painful.
 
I’m not the type to wish cancer on others, particularly on the Internet (what’s the point), but in the case of this Republican piece of filth, I truly hope his demise was long, drawn out and very, very painful.
well me neither Slipperman, but I do take satisfaction in him being in a lot of pain & misery in the autumn of his life
 
Not a rambling post at all, I was in 1LI then, watched it in the ops room. I may have known your friend.
Stephen Wilkinson. Knew him as a kid but hadn't seen him for a few years before it happened.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
Stephen Wilkinson. Knew him as a kid but hadn't seen him for a few years before it happened.
He used to queue to use the payphone outside our block, all of the U18 pln were good lads.
 

ches

LE
The heli footage was coming through live into an Ops room I was loitering in, it continued throughout their ordeal. No one had a clue who was in the car & blokes were on the phone trying to track it down once someone had been able to get the reg plate of the TV coverage also on the screens. There was an OOB to green army on that immediate area for the duration so most thoughts were that this was another michael stone lark.
 

skid2

LE
Book Reviewer
The two up-front and the bloke operating the heli-telly weren't in a position to intervene, but the event is something that has haunted them ever since. The full footage has, to the best of my knowledge, remained on a very limited release.
In the immediate aftermath, people were wheeled in and out in groups, to a Belfast police station. Where the heli tele footage was shown.
Graphic wasn't the word.
 
I've used the BBC footage and report from that day on language courses for French mil. They were genuinely shocked to see what went on that day. It could be an unfair assumption to make, but many of them seemed to see Irish republicanism as a noble, rather sanitary cause, and had no idea of how rotten the whole thing was and what went on.
 
I've used the BBC footage and report from that day on language courses for French mil. They were genuinely shocked to see what went on that day. It could be an unfair assumption to make, but many of them seemed to see Irish republicanism as a noble, rather sanitary cause, and had no idea of how rotten the whole thing was and what went on.
I suppose the reality of extreme brutality (be that manifested in a physical, mental, aggressive, hate filled or other way) is not something that people can comprehend unless they have been part of some such event, and to be clear I haven't

I can't think of any film, program, book (factual or fictitious) that brings the shock, horror, fear, hatred home in a way that makes me feel like it was a vicarious lived experience for me.

To level things up though I don't watch many films, programs, read many books (factual of fictitious) that are describing such situations, but I wonder that however well they do the job if the face-to-face, up-close reality is possibly beyond representation.
 

Cold_Collation

LE
Book Reviewer
I suppose the reality of extreme brutality (be that manifested in a physical, mental, aggressive, hate filled or other way) is not something that people can comprehend unless they have been part of some such event, and to be clear I haven't

I can't think of any film, program, book (factual or fictitious) that brings the shock, horror, fear, hatred home in a way that makes me feel like it was a vicarious lived experience for me.

To level things up though I don't watch many films, programs, read many books (factual of fictitious) that are describing such situations, but I wonder that however well they do the job if the face-to-face, up-close reality is possibly beyond representation.
The irony is that stylised violence is fine but show it like it is and you get criticised.

Fight scenes in films go on forever. Real fights tend to be pretty quick - and seeing someone get hit really hard is sickening. As is hearing bones crack.

That’s before you get to what bullets and bombs do to bodies.

There was case some years ago where a kid in a playground flying-kicked another in the stomach after watching Power Rangers. The other kid died.

Thread drift for which I apologise. But there is a point.

The original news footage of this incident is some of the most bestial I’ve seen. The actions on that day are unforgivable.

We now live in a world where ‘social influencers’ are complaining that kids learning about WW2 is ‘upsetting’. The same types of people who use violent language (‘Kill the Tories”) almost habitually, or who scream assault if someone responds even verbally to their nonsense.

If we carry on flinching from telling and showing the truth, it fosters violence because people don’t comprehend the consequences.

It also enables - indeed, assists - murdering terrorist scum to re-write history to show themselves as noble and fair. That’s not right.
 
The irony is that stylised violence is fine but show it like it is and you get criticised.

Fight scenes in films go on forever. Real fights tend to be pretty quick - and seeing someone get hit really hard is sickening. As is hearing bones crack.

That’s before you get to what bullets and bombs do to bodies.

There was case some years ago where a kid in a playground flying-kicked another in the stomach after watching Power Rangers. The other kid died.

Thread drift for which I apologise. But there is a point.

The original news footage of this incident is some of the most bestial I’ve seen. The actions on that day are unforgivable.

We now live in a world where ‘social influencers’ are complaining that kids learning about WW2 is ‘upsetting’. The same types of people who use violent language (‘Kill the Tories”) almost habitually, or who scream assault if someone responds even verbally to their nonsense.

If we carry on flinching from telling and showing the truth, it fosters violence because people don’t comprehend the consequences.

It also enables - indeed, assists - murdering terrorist scum to re-write history to show themselves as noble and fair. That’s not right.
To add to that, a friend of mine's daughter has been asked to create a digital presentation on WW2 in western Europe. During her research she came accross the Diary of Ann Frank. This girl is 14, when she told her tutor that she wanted to include this she was told in no uncertain terms not to not to even read it as it can be too distressing, I asked Mrs Barnowl what age she read the book at answer 11. Same as me. We are not trying to recreate history, just record as it happens.
 
To add to that, a friend of mine's daughter has been asked to create a digital presentation on WW2 in western Europe. During her research she came accross the Diary of Ann Frank. This girl is 14, when she told her tutor that she wanted to include this she was told in no uncertain terms not to not to even read it as it can be too distressing, I asked Mrs Barnowl what age she read the book at answer 11. Same as me. We are not trying to recreate history, just record as it happens.
I've never read it. However as a kid I used to go to my grandparents for Sunday lunch. Tyne Tees used to show The World At War either just before or just after Weekend World and I would watch both with my grandfather before eating, and would discuss either programme with him if there was anything that I found interesting, and that includes the episode on the Holocaust. I would have been seven or eight at the time.
 
I've never read it. However as a kid I used to go to my grandparents for Sunday lunch. Tyne Tees used to show The World At War either just before or just after Weekend World and I would watch both with my grandfather before eating, and would discuss either programme with him if there was anything that I found interesting, and that includes the episode on the Holocaust. I would have been seven or eight at the time.
I think, when I am – eventually – on Desert Island Discs, after my eight records (have you chosen yours yet?), and I have to decide on the luxury item: it will be the full box set of the World at War
 

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