Covid Vaccine Guinea Pigs?

Will you get the vaccine?

  • Yes - Give it to me

    Votes: 80 50.0%
  • No - Let nature take it's course

    Votes: 18 11.3%
  • I'll let other people get it first - then wait and see how it all pans out!

    Votes: 62 38.8%

  • Total voters
    160
It's extremely relevant as from the outset of this pandemic MSM reported that 'everyone' will die from this. They literally reported that every individual who died of CV-19 had no underlying conditions, this was a lie.

A lie powerful enough to put an entire nation into willful house arrest.


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Bolleaux.

The ‘MSM’* said no such thing.

They ‘literally’ didn’t. You clearly don’t deal in nuance but understanding how to classify deaths was an issue and different countries use slightly different metrics. That is NOT the same as saying that ‘no one had underlying conditions.

You are contradicting yourself over this ‘house arrest’ shite. The reason we have ‘only’ had the few casualties to which you were previously referring is because of the various prophylactic measures. You might have trouble remembering back a year but casualty rates (and fatality rate) in Wuhan and Italy were massively worse until people worked out the importance of these protective measures.

I’d suggest that rather than schooling yourself at the University of Facebook you read through this thread and take account of the opinions of people who actually work in this and related fields. I mean, I doubt you’d let Jimmy from down the pub give you heart surgery...

* presumably by ‘MSM’ you mean those people whose activities are overseen by the Press Complaints Commission and who can and do get hefty fines and serious trouble if they mess things up, rather than some anonymous twát on YouTube or Facebook.
 
Everybody knows This whole saga is really about alien lizards using secret cloaking devices to conceal their true identities subjugating the world population until it’s so weak and disorientated, it can’t do anything to prevent the imminent invasion from outer space.

They’re getting hungry and we’re the main course.

It’s the truth! Just you wait a few more weeks and you’ll all see!!!











Well, they started it. I’m just getting in on the action!
 

3ToedSloth

War Hero
Don't be an idiot - nobody that lives in the real world goes about colleting numbers.
1609178229231.png


Out of curiosity, what's your real world job?

If you want to talk numbers though - how many people in care homes that were over 80 die each year? how many died last year? how many of those died of a heart attack/old age etc and just happened to test positive for covid when the autopsy was carried out (not that covid killed them) - which boosted the covid death figures?
More attempts at obfuscation to avoid pertinent questions.

I'll tell you what's a well know fact. If you had jumped out of a plane without a parachute and landed like a lump of strawberry jam, then the blobby mess was tested for covid and was positive - you'd have been added to the covid death toll list.
That's not a fact. You must realise that none of your views stand up to scrutiny.
 
Don't be an idiot - nobody that lives in the real world goes about collecting numbers.

If you want to talk numbers though - how many people in care homes that were over 80 die each year? how many died last year? how many of those died of a heart attack/old age etc and just happened to test positive for covid when the autopsy was carried out (not that covid killed them) - which boosted the covid death figures?

I'll tell you what's a well know fact. If you had jumped out of a plane without a parachute and landed like a lump of strawberry jam, then the blobby mess was tested for covid and was positive - you'd have been added to the covid death toll list.

Between March and September there were approx. 30,260 'excess' deaths in private homes across the UK - counted as deaths above the 5 year average expectation. Less than 1 in 10 of these were attributed to Covid so it is very likely that the official numbers are under-reporting the reality.

Why? you might ask if you had an enquiring mind and didn't just parrot random nonsense off of the internet.

Many weren't tested either because they were incapable of attending a test centre (for any of a whole host of medical and non medical reasons) or because they were ineligible for testing. Bearing in mind that many people remain either asymptomatic, or display reduced or unusual symptoms, they may well not feel the need, writing off any illness as just being under the weather, again more likely in the older part of the population. The Covid tracking app (Zoe) found that a key Covid symptom in the elderly is 'delerium' which, on its own, wouldn't qualify them for a test.

So for all of the above reasons, those most at risk are also significantly less likely to have been tested and deaths among that group are likely to have not been recorded as Covid-related.

What people who espouse the relaxation of lockdown restrictions also fail to appreciate is that the very actions that they are complaining about are certainly saving lives. Your wearing a mask, or not going to the pub/party/football match/unnecessary shopping trip and, consequently, not infecting anyone else, has saved lives. You might not see it, you might not know it, but it happens every day.
 
The vaccine is only proven to reduce the symptoms (which will save lives) but you can still catch covid and pass it on so the other measures are here to stay
 
The vaccine is only proven to reduce the symptoms (which will save lives) but you can still catch covid and pass it on so the other measures are here to stay
Have a read of this
 
The vaccine is only proven to reduce the symptoms (which will save lives) but you can still catch covid and pass it on so the other measures are here to stay

This is a misunderstanding of how the vaccine works, the data, and how COVID works. To be brief, there's basically no way the vaccine works that well and doesn't also prevent or massively reduce people being infectious.

The 3 main vaccines target the main virulence factor of the virus, the spike protein that the virus uses to get into and infect cells. The humoral (antibody) and cellular response to the vaccine is therefore specific to that protein, and antibodies binding to the spike are "neutralising", meaning they stop the virus being able to infect.

The cellular (T-cell) response is also fully capable of killing infected cells. Both the cellular and humoral responses are better than in natural infection, the humoral by an order of magnitude.

There is a question about whether the immunity is fully "sterilising", meaning the virus is completely unable to infect any cells, or the infection is rejected. Many people including in the scientific literature are confusing these concepts and we aren't going to get an answer very soon. It doesn't really matter though.

In patients infected with COVID there is good evidence that people who go on to have fully symptomatic disease are the most infectious and have the highest respiratory viral load. They may be most infectious when pre-symptomatic or at the beginning of symptoms. Once the vaccine has had time to work there are incredibly few symptomatic patients. The AZ and Moderna studies are looking at whether their populations have significant asymptomatic disease, by seeing of patients have antibodies against non-spike sars-cov-2 proteins.

One final thing is that immunity does appear to develop from 9 days after the first dose of Pfizer vaccine. The study wasn't designed to evaluate different dose strategies, but the infections plateaued in the active treatment arm after that point.
 

Goatman

ADC
Book Reviewer
This explainer from November 2020 ( before the Pfizer/BionTech jab was rolled out) gives an overview of the problem of distrust which underpins the US Antivaxxer campaigns:

 
The vaccine is only proven to reduce the symptoms (which will save lives) but you can still catch covid and pass it on so the other measures are here to stay
1609245329960.png
 

Fang_Farrier

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
FB_IMG_1609343718308.jpg
 

Goatman

ADC
Book Reviewer
Another explainer, this time from John Campbell on the approval of the Oxford/AZ vaccine- headline: USD3 a shot, can be kept in an ordinary fridge.

Standfast @Nick Dipples , this is worth taking onboard:


@Steamboat .....pass it along to your favourite Anti-Vaxxer Over Yonder , with the compliments of the British National Health Service :cool:


ETA:
----------------- --------------------------- ------------------------- ------------------------------

AstraZeneca Vaccine Approval In EU Unlikely In January - EMA

Thu, 31st Dec 2020 09:39
alliance-news-logo.png

(Alliance News) - The coronavirus vaccine developed by AstraZeneca PLC and Oxford University, which was approved Wednesday in Britain, is unlikely to get a green light in the EU in the next month, according to the European Medicines Agency.

The regulator, charged with overseeing vaccines' authorisation in the EU before they can be marketed, approved the Pfizer Inc-BioNTech SE vaccine on December 21. It is expected to rule on Moderna's vaccine on January 6.

But an EU ruling on the AstraZeneca-Oxford jab will take some time.

"Additional scientific information on issues related to quality, safety and efficacy of the vaccine is deemed necessary to support the rigour required for a conditional marketing authorisation and this has been requested from the company," the EMA said in a statement.

"Further information from the ongoing clinical trials is also expected from January."

The Amsterdam-based agency earlier told AFP that it had not yet received any formal marketing authorisation and that it had set no timetable for approving the vaccine.

The regulator's deputy executive director Noel Walthion told Belgian newspaper Het Nieuwsblad on Tuesday that a possible approval in January is "unlikely".

The AstraZeneca-Oxford vaccine is currently undergoing a "rolling review" which allows the EMA to examine safety and efficacy data as they are released, even before a formal application for authorisation is filed by the manufacturer.

This procedure speeds up the evaluation of a marketing authorisation application once it is made, the EMA said.

The agency said Wednesday it is "aware that the UK MHRA has granted a temporary authorisation of supply of the vaccine in the emergency use setting, which is distinct from a marketing authorisation."

An AstraZeneca spokesperson told AFP it "has submitted a full data package to support an application for conditional marketing authorisation for the AstraZeneca Covid-19 vaccine to the European Medicines Agency."

The spokesperson added: "AstraZeneca has been submitting data on a rolling basis and will continue to work closely with the EMA to support the start of a formal CMA application process."

Britain is the first country in the world to approve the vaccine, which is cheaper to produce and easier to store and transport than the Pfizer-BioNTech jab.

For EU countries, it is up to the European Commission in Brussels to issue the final green light after EMA approval.

Inoculations with the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine began in the 27-member bloc over the weekend.


source: AFP
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------


What Internet conspiraloons have dubbed 'Big Pharma' - and squalid everyday Euro politics are at play.

1) Pfizer is US based.
2) It's partner in their Covid vaccine development, BionTech, are based in Germany.
3) The Pfizer-Biontech vaccine is to be produced in Belgium.


Question: in whose financial interest is it to delay approval of the Oxford-AstraZeneca product ?

Read The Constant Gardener - and follow the money Watson :)
 
Last edited:
Don't be an idiot - nobody that lives in the real world goes about collecting numbers.

If you want to talk numbers though - how many people in care homes that were over 80 die each year? how many died last year? how many of those died of a heart attack/old age etc and just happened to test positive for covid when the autopsy was carried out (not that covid killed them) - which boosted the covid death figures?

I'll tell you what's a well know fact. If you had jumped out of a plane without a parachute and landed like a lump of strawberry jam, then the blobby mess was tested for covid and was positive - you'd have been added to the covid death toll list.

So your only answer is a strawman?

Want to try answering again like a grown up, educated person would?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Another explainer, this time from John Campbell on the approval of the Oxford/AZ vaccine- headline: USD3 a shot, can be kept in an ordinary fridge.

Standfast @Nick Dipples , this is worth taking onboard:


@Steamboat .....pass it along to your favourite Anti-Vaxxer Over Yonder , with the compliments of the British National Health Service :cool:


ETA:
----------------- --------------------------- ------------------------- ------------------------------

AstraZeneca Vaccine Approval In EU Unlikely In January - EMA

Thu, 31st Dec 2020 09:39
alliance-news-logo.png

(Alliance News) - The coronavirus vaccine developed by AstraZeneca PLC and Oxford University, which was approved Wednesday in Britain, is unlikely to get a green light in the EU in the next month, according to the European Medicines Agency.

The regulator, charged with overseeing vaccines' authorisation in the EU before they can be marketed, approved the Pfizer Inc-BioNTech SE vaccine on December 21. It is expected to rule on Moderna's vaccine on January 6.

But an EU ruling on the AstraZeneca-Oxford jab will take some time.

"Additional scientific information on issues related to quality, safety and efficacy of the vaccine is deemed necessary to support the rigour required for a conditional marketing authorisation and this has been requested from the company," the EMA said in a statement.

"Further information from the ongoing clinical trials is also expected from January."

The Amsterdam-based agency earlier told AFP that it had not yet received any formal marketing authorisation and that it had set no timetable for approving the vaccine.

The regulator's deputy executive director Noel Walthion told Belgian newspaper Het Nieuwsblad on Tuesday that a possible approval in January is "unlikely".

The AstraZeneca-Oxford vaccine is currently undergoing a "rolling review" which allows the EMA to examine safety and efficacy data as they are released, even before a formal application for authorisation is filed by the manufacturer.

This procedure speeds up the evaluation of a marketing authorisation application once it is made, the EMA said.

The agency said Wednesday it is "aware that the UK MHRA has granted a temporary authorisation of supply of the vaccine in the emergency use setting, which is distinct from a marketing authorisation."

An AstraZeneca spokesperson told AFP it "has submitted a full data package to support an application for conditional marketing authorisation for the AstraZeneca Covid-19 vaccine to the European Medicines Agency."

The spokesperson added: "AstraZeneca has been submitting data on a rolling basis and will continue to work closely with the EMA to support the start of a formal CMA application process."

Britain is the first country in the world to approve the vaccine, which is cheaper to produce and easier to store and transport than the Pfizer-BioNTech jab.

For EU countries, it is up to the European Commission in Brussels to issue the final green light after EMA approval.

Inoculations with the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine began in the 27-member bloc over the weekend.


source: AFP
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------


What Internet conspiraloons have dubbed 'Big Pharma' - and squalid everyday Euro politics are at play.

1) Pfizer is US based.
2) It's partner in their Covid vaccine development, BionTech, are based in Germany.
3) The Pfizer-Biontech vaccine is to be produced in Belgium.


Question: in whose financial interest is it to delay approval of the Oxford-AstraZeneca product ?

Read The Constant Gardener - and follow the money Watson :)
Wouldn’t I tell my favorite anti-vaxxer the coast is clear? They have nothing to fear, and then cough all over them with my fingers crossed??
 

Goatman

ADC
Book Reviewer
Agree....kill 'em all and let their gods sort it out.........
 
Agree....kill 'em all and let their gods sort it out.........
If their god wanted them to live, he wouldn't have sent them a vaccine.
 
So your only answer is a strawman?

Want to try answering again like a grown up, educated person would?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Huh? what are you on about? do you think I should scan every post on the forum just on the off chance that someone replied and "expected" an answer to something....

I don't even know what your question was - and I'll not lose any sleep tonight thinking about whatever it was either.
 
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