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Covid Vaccine Guinea Pigs?

Will you get the vaccine?

  • Yes - Give it to me

    Votes: 80 50.0%
  • No - Let nature take it's course

    Votes: 18 11.3%
  • I'll let other people get it first - then wait and see how it all pans out!

    Votes: 62 38.8%

  • Total voters
    160

WightMivvi

War Hero
Ok, a question for the more medically aware arrsers.

I can understand how the Pfizer mRNA vaccine works (a very simplistic description is that it delivers a harmless piece of genetic material into the body’s cells, and that genetic material causes the cells to create and release harmless covid-like genetic material (the spikes) that the body recognises as an invader, which the body then squishes).

What I don’t understand at the moment is what stops the body’s cells that are now producing the spikes from continuing to create the spikes.

Do spike-producing cells stop producing spikes once the initial fuel (for want of a better analogy) delivered by the vaccine runs out? Or does the body need to destroy both the “fuel” and the cells that the vaccine got to create the spikes?
 
This is really about priority groups for the vaccine, but it does have nuggets of useful background info

For example

The Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine is a lipid nanoparticle–formulated mRNA vaccine. The mRNA encodes the SARS-CoV-2 receptor-binding domain of the spike protein.

The mRNA in the vaccine is translated and transcribed by the body to produce this key part of the spike protein. The protein then acts as an intracellular antigen to stimulate the immune response.

The mRNA in the vaccine is normally degraded within a few days and cannot incorporate into the host genome. Data from the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine trials undertaken in over 40,000 individuals indicate high vaccine efficacy, with no serious safety concerns observed
 
The Royal Voluntary Service and NHS Volunteer Responders have just been invited (got email an hour ago) to assist in giving the vaccine. You can choose to be:
  • Volunteer Vaccinator - Under the supervision of healthcare professionals, Volunteer Vaccinators will be trained to deliver a vaccination to a patient. They will also be ready to act if a patient has an adverse reaction.
  • Vaccination Care Volunteer - This role will support patients all the way through, from arrival to discharge. They will help patients get to the right place to receive their vaccination and provide first aid if anyone has a medical emergency.
  • Volunteer Patient Advocate - This role will concentrate entirely on the welfare of patients, potentially looking after people and small groups all the way through the vaccination centres. If anyone has a medical emergency, a Volunteer Patient Advocate will be able to recognise it and get help quickly.
These roles are managed by St John Ambulance and can be done alongside your existing role as an NHS Volunteer Responder. A further role as a venue steward will be available to NHS Volunteer Responders soon.
 
Well this vaccine is being rushed out, with zero studies on long term affects which may or may not cause damage or unwanted side effects to the human body. I for one won't be taking it and I think the Queen, all the politicians etc, should be forced to get it first if it's being forced on people,then if they don't die or turn into mongs, let some of the young people get it first.
I say let nature do it's thing. We have lived with virus, disease and war since the beginning of time, and yet we have survived (well the strong have). Let the weak die, there's no point trying to fight nature - it's the way of the universe!

How do we know this vaccine won't harm unborn babies? Just like the thalidomide scandal was covered up for about 50 years, I expect some people will be affected negatively by this vaccine - and the government will try to cover it up.
Probably been pointed out already, but why would we respect the opinions of someone who understands neither science or English?
AFFECT-vs-EFFECT-1-1200x628.jpg
 
Ok, a question for the more medically aware arrsers.

I can understand how the Pfizer mRNA vaccine works (a very simplistic description is that it delivers a harmless piece of genetic material into the body’s cells, and that genetic material causes the cells to create and release harmless covid-like genetic material (the spikes) that the body recognises as an invader, which the body then squishes).

What I don’t understand at the moment is what stops the body’s cells that are now producing the spikes from continuing to create the spikes.

Do spike-producing cells stop producing spikes once the initial fuel (for want of a better analogy) delivered by the vaccine runs out? Or does the body need to destroy both the “fuel” and the cells that the vaccine got to create the spikes?

This is actually a very good question and I guess the answer isn't completely obvious.

To be a bit basic: DNA is the permanent code in the nucleus of your cells that people generally talk about when they are discussing genes. The genetic code is made up of sequences of the 4 letters of DNA subunits. of One of the main things genes in your DNA do is contain the recipe for proteins, but there is an intermediate step where cell has to copy the DNA code into corresponding messenger RNA, which matches the code of the DNA. The mRNA then heads out of the nucleus into the protein constructing units in the cell (called ribosomes) where each 3 letters of RNA code for a specific amino acid, which are the building blocks of proteins.

After that, I guess your question is why doesn't the cell continue to use the mRNA to make more antigen? The first thing is that RNA is inherently more unstable than DNA. Apart from the molecule itself being less stable, DNA is double stranded - the second strand is a mirror-image of the first strand - so if it gets damaged the cellular machinery can repair it. RNA is single stranded so it is useless if it breaks. On top of that, things floating around inside cells are chopped up if they're not useful. This is part of how your immune system can tell if a cell is infected by a virus, the cell constantly holds up on its outside bits of things floating around inside it for checking. Long story short, mRNAs can be re-used but are quite rapidly broken down unless the cell specifically decides to keep them.

The result of all this is that the mRNA vaccines cause your cells to produce SARS-COV-2 spike protein for a few hours after injection, because the mRNA is only produced briefly and is rapidly degraded inside and outside your cells.
 
I thoroughly approve of the prioritised release of the vaccine(s). It means that there are a few grades above me who will serve as the lab rats before its my turn.

My only concern is that the top of the tree is populated by healthcare workers. If they are the first to get wiped out then the rest of us might as well kiss our arrses goodbye.
 

WightMivvi

War Hero
This is actually a very good question and I guess the answer isn't completely obvious.

To be a bit basic: DNA is the permanent code in the nucleus of your cells that people generally talk about when they are discussing genes. The genetic code is made up of sequences of the 4 letters of DNA subunits. of One of the main things genes in your DNA do is contain the recipe for proteins, but there is an intermediate step where cell has to copy the DNA code into corresponding messenger RNA, which matches the code of the DNA. The mRNA then heads out of the nucleus into the protein constructing units in the cell (called ribosomes) where each 3 letters of RNA code for a specific amino acid, which are the building blocks of proteins.

After that, I guess your question is why doesn't the cell continue to use the mRNA to make more antigen? The first thing is that RNA is inherently more unstable than DNA. Apart from the molecule itself being less stable, DNA is double stranded - the second strand is a mirror-image of the first strand - so if it gets damaged the cellular machinery can repair it. RNA is single stranded so it is useless if it breaks. On top of that, things floating around inside cells are chopped up if they're not useful. This is part of how your immune system can tell if a cell is infected by a virus, the cell constantly holds up on its outside bits of things floating around inside it for checking. Long story short, mRNAs can be re-used but are quite rapidly broken down unless the cell specifically decides to keep them.

The result of all this is that the mRNA vaccines cause your cells to produce SARS-COV-2 spike protein for a few hours after injection, because the mRNA is only produced briefly and is rapidly degraded inside and outside your cells.
Thanks.

You’ve just added another factor for me to consider. Mrs WM has myotonic dystrophy, where the inability of her cells to expel broken RNA causes all the problems - the cells cannot communicate properly because the broken RNA disrupts communication between cells, causing them to gradually atrophy (I think).

Looks like I’ve got a bit of research to do :rolleyes:
 
Thanks.

You’ve just added another factor for me to consider. Mrs WM has myotonic dystrophy, where the inability of her cells to expel broken RNA causes all the problems - the cells cannot communicate properly because the broken RNA disrupts communication between cells, causing them to gradually atrophy (I think).

Looks like I’ve got a bit of research to do :rolleyes:

In that case this is very much an "ask your consultant and don't listen to díckheads on the internet" situation :)

By the way Sci-Hub will allow you to access most journal articles without a subscription.

e.g. Sci-Hub | Myotonic dystrophy. Current Opinion in Neurology, 27(5), 599–606 | 10.1097/WCO.0000000000000128
 

Fang_Farrier

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Thanks.

You’ve just added another factor for me to consider. Mrs WM has myotonic dystrophy, where the inability of her cells to expel broken RNA causes all the problems - the cells cannot communicate properly because the broken RNA disrupts communication between cells, causing them to gradually atrophy (I think).

Looks like I’ve got a bit of research to do :rolleyes:


Definitely need to speak to own consultant to see which vaccine is most suitable for her.
 

Goatman

ADC
Book Reviewer
As the Anti-Vaxx walts, wannabees and Lunatics General start falling out of their trees over here in UK ( qv Piers Corbyn ) this from elsewhere:

SOURCE

Safety has frequently been a public concern with vaccines, especially new and unfamiliar ones. But anti-vaccine propaganda and misinformation, often distributed rapidly through social media, have compounded the difficulty of building trust in countries such as the United States, where vaccine development has become politicized.

Because older adults will be a priority group for most early vaccination campaigns, rumors and misinformation will be a concern for all countries, not just the United States. There are sure to be a number of coincidental deaths following vaccination, and in the current social media ecosystem dangerous rumors can easily take off, potentially undermining trust.

This happened recently in South Korea, where more than a dozen deaths falsely associated with influenza vaccines sparked a public scare. The risk of false associations will be even higher with a coronavirus vaccine, given its novelty and the attention that will be paid to immunization efforts everywhere.

THE DANGERS OF DISILLUSIONMENT

All these obstacles will hamper global efforts to immunize enough of the world’s population to stamp out the coronavirus. As a result, the risk of outbreaks will continue long after the first generation of vaccines is rolled out. Social-distancing measures, border controls, and other public health interventions will therefore have to remain in place for many months to come. It is possible that disillusionment will follow, especially as health inequities between and within countries will become more visible over time.

Such popular frustrations could deepen skepticism of vaccines and fuel more dangerous disinformation, compounding the challenges of administering global immunization programs. In other words, disillusionment risks creating a negative feedback loop that ends up prolonging the pandemic. As a result, governments must be careful to set realistic expectations around vaccination drives and to carefully calibrate their public messaging.

The imminent arrival of effective vaccines is good news, but it won’t mean an immediate end to the health crisis. With shortages likely to remain a reality in much of the world for at least a year and distribution challenges set to slow immunization efforts long after that, the world should be prepared for COVID-19 to linger for some time.
More likely than a swift victory over COVID-19 is the beginning of an extended period of détente with the virus.

-------------------- ------------------------- ------------------------------------------ ------------------------
 
No freedom of speech. F#ck Facebook


It's a private company which provides you with a product for free/in exchange for your data; they can do what they want the same as the owners of this site can do as they wish.
 

nice guy

Old-Salt
I think this new vaccine is superb news absolutely wunderbar, the fact that it must be stored in the Arctic and we all have to go to the Arctic twice to get is a mere trifle..

.i am of course joking, the F.ucking Arctic is not cold enough to house this "miracle drug".


And you'd stupid to get it anyway...unless you want a three legged Grandchild
 
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Yokel

LE
No freedom of speech. F#ck Facebook

Really? Normally I would agree with you, but much of the disinformation comes from Governments and groups that do not wish us well. The West is under attack from this sort of thing constantly, and we need to do something about it.

I think this new vaccine is superb news absolutely wunderbar, the fact that it must be stored in the Arctic and we all we all have to go to the Arctic to get is a mere trifle..

.i am of course joking, the F.ucking Arctic is not cold enough to to house this "miracle drug".


And you'd stupid to get it anyway...unless you want a three legged Grandchild

Why? Do you lick windows? You are aware that lots of industrial and scientific processes use very low temperatures?
 
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I think this new vaccine is superb news absolutely wunderbar, the fact that it must be stored in the Arctic and we all we all have to go to the Arctic to get is a mere trifle..

.i am of course joking, the F.ucking Arctic is not cold enough to to house this "miracle drug".


And you'd stupid to get it anyway...unless you want a three legged Grandchild

Your profile tells me that you live in Holland.

I suspect that you need to lay off the Herb for a bit.

. . . like, maybe, a couple of years?
 
No freedom of speech. F#ck Facebook
Freedom of speech doesn't mean what you think it does, and you don't have it on someones private website.
You also don't have it as a protection from posting medically dangerous (and lunatic) theories.
 

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