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Covid Vaccine Guinea Pigs?

Will you get the vaccine?

  • Yes - Give it to me

    Votes: 80 50.3%
  • No - Let nature take it's course

    Votes: 18 11.3%
  • I'll let other people get it first - then wait and see how it all pans out!

    Votes: 61 38.4%

  • Total voters
    159
This side of the pond it was Thanksgiving that put us on the upward winding road we’re on now, people didn’t listen about gatherings. Our graph is basically identical, but not trending downward.

Isn't Thanksgiving yet to happen? Deaths follow some weeks down the road.

AFAIK there's only been a mild rise now in eg FL, which dumped all mandates some time back.

Coronaviruses are seasonal, and this one is now endemic. We'll see whether it devolves into just another form of the common cold or whether it continues to rampage throughout the population leaving only 99%+ of people alive. Perhaps a vaccine will save us.
 
Thanksgiving in Canada is in October so it’s followed it’s timeline like predicted, before that it was reasonably under control.
 

GDog

Old-Salt
That’s possible.
It was entirely predictable and avoidable too.

Now we have people on the news telling you not to hug relatives at Christmas.

And an entirely unsurprising revelation one week after the press release that one vaccine's trial results are dodgy as ****, but it's not like this has been documented before by the likes of Ben Goldacre is it?
 

GDog

Old-Salt
It was entirely predictable and avoidable too.

Now we have people on the news telling you not to hug relatives at Christmas.

And an entirely unsurprising revelation one week after the press release that one vaccine's trial results are dodgy as ****, but it's not like this has been documented before by the likes of Ben Goldacre is it?
An extract from Bad Pharma, as relevant today as ever


"Drugs are tested by the people who manufacture them, in poorly designed trials, on hopelessly small numbers of weird, unrepresentative patients, and analysed using techniques which are flawed by design, in such a way that they exaggerate the benefits of treatments. Unsurprisingly, these trials tend to produce results that favour the manufacturer. When trials throw up results that companies don't like, they are perfectly entitled to hide them from doctors and patients, so we only ever see a distorted picture of any drug's true effects. Regulators see most of the trial data, but only from early on in a drug's life, and even then they don't give this data to doctors or patients, or even to other parts of government. This distorted evidence is then communicated and applied in a distorted fashion.

In their forty years of practice after leaving medical school, doctors hear about what works through ad hoc oral traditions, from sales reps, colleagues or journals. But those colleagues can be in the pay of drug companies – often undisclosed – and the journals are too. And so are the patient groups. And finally, academic papers, which everyone thinks of as objective, are often covertly planned and written by people who work directly for the companies, without disclosure. Sometimes whole academic journals are even owned outright by one drug company. Aside from all this, for several of the most important and enduring problems in medicine, we have no idea what the best treatment is, because it's not in anyone's financial interest to conduct any trials at all."
 
An extract from Bad Pharma, as relevant today as ever


"Drugs are tested by the people who manufacture them, in poorly designed trials, on hopelessly small numbers of weird, unrepresentative patients, and analysed using techniques which are flawed by design, in such a way that they exaggerate the benefits of treatments. Unsurprisingly, these trials tend to produce results that favour the manufacturer. When trials throw up results that companies don't like, they are perfectly entitled to hide them from doctors and patients, so we only ever see a distorted picture of any drug's true effects. Regulators see most of the trial data, but only from early on in a drug's life, and even then they don't give this data to doctors or patients, or even to other parts of government. This distorted evidence is then communicated and applied in a distorted fashion.

In their forty years of practice after leaving medical school, doctors hear about what works through ad hoc oral traditions, from sales reps, colleagues or journals. But those colleagues can be in the pay of drug companies – often undisclosed – and the journals are too. And so are the patient groups. And finally, academic papers, which everyone thinks of as objective, are often covertly planned and written by people who work directly for the companies, without disclosure. Sometimes whole academic journals are even owned outright by one drug company. Aside from all this, for several of the most important and enduring problems in medicine, we have no idea what the best treatment is, because it's not in anyone's financial interest to conduct any trials at all."

I like Ben Goldacre as the only journalist who understands Beyesian probability.

But you’d hope that this vaccine gets more than ‘8 out of 10 cats’...

Given that the eyes of the world are on them.
 

GDog

Old-Salt
I like Ben Goldacre as the only journalist who understands Beyesian probability.

But you’d hope that this vaccine gets more than ‘8 out of 10 cats’...

Given that the eyes of the world are on them.
And the knives of governments and shareholders are pressed into their backs
 

Oyibo

LE
1606516789733.png


Not entirely accurate when it comes to immunity, but you get the picture
 

Yokel

LE
View attachment 524302

Not entirely accurate when it comes to immunity, but you get the picture

Are you suggesting that people should have a list of vaccinations on display like a list of Battle honours? I fear certain contributors to this thread would have a very short list - for fear of the remote probability of side effects.

Then they would still refuse to wear masks or practice social distancing.
 

Oyibo

LE
Are you suggesting that people should have a list of vaccinations on display like a list of Battle honours? I fear certain contributors to this thread would have a very short list - for fear of the remote probability of side effects.

Then they would still refuse to wear masks or practice social distancing.

I'm not, it was more a pictorial comment on how pathetic some people are.
 
I found my Gulf War 1990/91 vaccination certificate.

We had Pertussis and Anthrax dated 03 Jan 1991.

Google tells me Pertussis is whooping cough.

Weird!?

Maybe they had some left over stuff and thought 'well we may as well'.
I'm pretty sure my vaccination book has me down for the bubonic plague. I will have to try and find it.
 
I found my Gulf War 1990/91 vaccination certificate.

We had Pertussis and Anthrax dated 03 Jan 1991.

Google tells me Pertussis is whooping cough.

Weird!?

Maybe they had some left over stuff and thought 'well we may as well'.

I googled and it's an adjuvant to speed up the Anthrax vaccine:

2020-07-27_18-07_Photos.jpg


 

Oyibo

LE
I found my Gulf War 1990/91 vaccination certificate.

We had Pertussis and Anthrax dated 03 Jan 1991.

Google tells me Pertussis is whooping cough.

Weird!?

Maybe they had some left over stuff and thought 'well we may as well'.

we got all the shots for GW1 in, err, the 'Shot. The strangest was a Gamma Globulin injection for God knows what. The syringe was like a piston from a steam engine, and everyone hobbled down the road afterwards with a golf-ball sized lump on their thighs.

We didn't get Anthrax, but we all sorts of other stuff chucked into us.
 
Did you read on the side effects that the swine flu vaccine had:


Some people are getting some serious compo (after scientists and doctors said it was safe) , still I would rather have my health than trust an experimental vaccine.
 

Fang_Farrier

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
we got all the shots for GW1 in, err, the 'Shot. The strangest was a Gamma Globulin injection for God knows what. The syringe was like a piston from a steam engine, and everyone hobbled down the road afterwards with a golf-ball sized lump on their thighs.

We didn't get Anthrax, but we all sorts of other stuff chucked into us.

That was for Hep A.

A viral infection of the liver but spread by oro-faecal route.

Can be common when there's poor hygiene or sanitation.
 
Did you read on the side effects that the swine flu vaccine had:


Some people are getting some serious compo (after scientists and doctors said it was safe) , still I would rather have my health than trust an experimental vaccine.

Yes this is well known and not an issue with the mRNA or adenovirus covid vaccines as the only antigen produced is to the sars-cov-2 spike protein. The problem with pandemrix was because one of the proteins in the viral nuclear capsule has the partly the same sequence as a neural receptor, in some people who have a genetic predisposition to narcolepsy. Those people then were more likely to develop the disorder after receiving that specific vaccine. It is fairly likely that getting H1N1 also caused this increased risk.

Autoimmunity / cross reactivity is the key risk of vaccines, and of course why the trials are being done.

So no, the issue with Pandemrix is not a reason not to get vaccinated against sars-cov-2.
 

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