Covid Vaccine Guinea Pigs?

[Whey_Aye_Banzai]

Do you have any reservations about those who adhere to the hygiene and social distancing rules wearing masks if they do so correctly?

Do you ever wear a mask?

Not at all and I wear a mask where it's legally mandated.

And I often see people walk straight past the hygiene station in our local supermarket will pulling on a facemask; as I'm sure everyone else has. Jarrod made a post about this yesterday.

That's why lab studies don't translate well into real life scenarios.

 

[bob_the_bomb]

Indeed. In 2016 I had my bike nicked in Avignon. When I went to report it, I was spectacularly chinned-off by the Police Municipale, having turned up at their nick without any ID. No ID = no complaint; so had to go back the next day with my passport.

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Fücked about by the filth?

 

[re-stilly]

So those that had their PULHEEMS on here (civvies won't have a clue) and were injected with christ knows what are whinging at a vaccine. If it means I get a little certificate meaning I can travel and gallivant about then I will have it.

 

[leveller]

Will be an interesting test of the resolve of the Antivaxers when they find they can't book their holidays to Benidorm.

 

[smartascarrots]

Well that would be strange because before we were told to wear masks, we were told we didn't need them:

Wait, you're telling me not everyone is totally aware of everything or tells the totally accurate truth all the time?

Again, when we have living examples of why wearing masks helps nations defeat COVID why not just accept it?

 

[Berlin_104s]

Fücked about by the filth?

Funny fcuker - hence the fact I wasn't too outraged!!

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[Goatman]

So those that had their PULHEEMS on here (civvies won't have a clue) and were injected with christ knows what are whinging at a vaccine. If it means I get a little certificate meaning I can travel and gallivant about then I will have it.

I forecast to my son that we would move to the same dealio as used to be the case with Yellow Fever Immunisation*.

Used to carry a little record card in my passport saying I was jabbed up against it.

We will move to a similar regime for COVID-19 within the next 12 months I reckon...probably be a QR code rather than a piece of cardboard lazzy-banded in place - same principle.

'No jab, no fly': COVID-19 vaccine key to opening borders, travel leaders say


Incidentally, my GP has no record of any immunisation jabs. From memory, thus far:

Service:
Yellow Fever
Typhoid
Cholera
Hep C
Rabies
Japanese Encephalitis
Human Immunoglobulin

Civilian:
TB/TABT
Polio - ( Sugar cube ?)
BCG
Tetanus
Pneumonia - this year
Flu jab- ==""==

 

[Whey_Aye_Banzai]

Wait, you're telling me not everyone is totally aware of everything or tells the totally accurate truth all the time?

Again, when we have living examples of why wearing masks helps nations defeat COVID why not just accept it?

My mind doesn't just 'accept stuff'. I guess it's inquisitive that way. It's like someone saying 'Just accept there's a God'! You can't force acceptance.

I like to know why we were told not to routinely wear facemasks and then why the u-turn; based on what evidence when we were first told that there was no 'high quality evidence' that existed to mandate face masks.

All we had (in Wales) was the u-turn without being provided the evidence.

I assume it was a political decision.

 

[re-stilly]

I forecast to my son that we would move to the same dealio as used to be the case with Yellow Fever Immunisation*.

Used to carry a little record card in my passport saying I was jabbed up against it.

We will move to a similar regime for COVID-19 within the next 12 months I reckon...probably be a QR code rather than a piece of cardboard lazzy-banded in place - same principle.

'No jab, no fly': COVID-19 vaccine key to opening borders, travel leaders say


Incidentally, my GP has no record of any immunisation jabs. From memory, thus far:

Service:
Yellow Fever
Typhoid
Cholera
Hep C
Rabies
Japanese Encephalitis
Human Immunaglobulin

Civilian:
TB/TABT
Polio - ( Sugar cube ?)
BCG
Tetanus
Pneumonia - this year
Flu jab- ==""==

Yellow Fever was the only one that made me feel bad, and you missed Diphtheria off your list

 

[bob_the_bomb]

How anti-vaxxers could undermine Covid-19 immunity push | The Week UK

Experts warn that growing wave of scepticism could ruin ‘whole programme’ of vaccination rollout

www.theweek.co.uk

 

[Norsemaid]

A video about the vaccines safety and efficacy by the Zoe app founder Professor Tim Spector and Respiratory immunologist Dr Peter Openshaw .
I'm watching it in chunks but so far so interesting .
Although i realise a certain footballer's death might be of more interest .

 

[smartascarrots]

My mind doesn't just 'accept stuff'. I guess it's inquisitive that way. It's like someone saying 'Just accept there's a God'! You can't force acceptance.

If God were to turn up, wave at you and say, "Hi!" you could be forgiven for waiving the absolute proof requirement.

Similarly, when there are countries right this very minute going about their lives more or less as normal because of the measures they've taken based on their own previous experience of similar situations, asking them to prove that what's actually working actually works sounds a little unreasonable.

 

[GDog]

How are you going to conduct randomised control trials? Why do you need to? If the virus is carried in saliva droplets as you exhale, then any measure which reduces droplet emission will obviously reduce the chance of you passing any virus to someone else.

It really is that simple. Sadly the devolved administrations have used it as an opportunity to play politics and show their differences with HMG.

Here's an RCT

ACP Journals

Doesn't give you the answer you want to hear though so let's ignore it.

Why do an RCT? Because mask policies come with all sorts of costs and if they are shown not to be effective then those costs are not offset by any benefits.

One of the most important costs is the resentment and loss of trust in Government regulations and laws at a time when said Government is really keen to get everyone on board the vaccine bandwagon.

Nearly a year of lies, spin and misrepresentation of data do not endear people to believe a desperate Government begging people to take the vaccine it approves.

"It really is safe! Look, we got Vallance to do a graph showing you how safe it is!

LOOK AT THE GRAPH OF SAFETY! LOOK AT IT!"

The death of trust in Government and connected institutions. The price of policies like this:

“A substantial number of people still do not feel sufficiently personally threatened,” they write. “The perceived level of personal threat needs to be increased among those who are complacent, using hard-hitting emotional messaging.”

 

[Whey_Aye_Banzai]

If God were to turn up, wave at you and say, "Hi!" you could be forgiven for waiving the absolute proof requirement.

Similarly, when there are countries right this very minute going about their lives more or less as normal because of the measures they've taken based on their own previous experience of similar situations, asking them to prove that what's actually working actually works sounds a little unreasonable.

Wearing masks had made no difference that I can discern. Europe's mostly masked up and we've all had second waves.

So these countries that are 'going about their lives more or less as normal' must be doing something better than just sticking a mask on their face.

I'm half-Japanese and have a lot of family over there, so have taken an interest in what they've done. They've a very dense population and the oldest in the world and have had a fair bit of relative success.

We both wear masks. Their testing levels are very low (India beats Japan at testing). We're one of the most tested nations in the world. They've not had any HARD lockdowns (just requests backed up by peer pressure and financial incentives, and don't think everyone/every business complied; they didn't). We're on our second lockdown.

The main differences seem to be they protected their care homes effectively and they use a different method of contract tracing which focusses on the source of transmission; they work on the basis that most people who get covid aren't drivers of the corona, but that there's a percentage of people who're super-spreaders, so they put emphasis not on contacting everyone, but looking to find the source of infections.

 

[smartascarrots]

Wearing masks had made no difference that I can discern.

I don't think you can be discerning hard enough then.

It's cut down the transmission rates because there's less airborne virus in the confined spaces people occupy or pass through in their daily lives. That means fewer people have the virus to pass it on to the next unfortunates.

We ought to have done it earlier and mire thoroughly and because we didn't we now have enough infected people wandering around being infectious to keep the ball rolling. That's not to say we should actively conspire to assist the virus.

 

[Whey_Aye_Banzai]

I don't think you can be discerning hard enough then.

It's cut down the transmission rates because there's less airborne virus in the confined spaces people occupy or pass through in their daily lives. That means fewer people have the virus to pass it on to the next unfortunates.

I'm not sure you're right, mucka.

 

[Legallybald]

Can anyone spot the various non-pharmaceutical intervention effects on this graph of Scottish deaths? And why we might need a vaccine to contain this dreadful scourge?

NB population of Scotland is c.5.5 million. And the mask mandate (for instance) was introduced on 10th July, when it's clear the death toll was surging.

 

[bob_the_bomb]

Can anyone spot the various non-pharmaceutical intervention effects on this graph of Scottish deaths? And why we might need a vaccine to contain this dreadful scourge?

NB population of Scotland is c.5.5 million. And the mask mandate (for instance) was introduced on 10th July, when it's clear the death toll was surging.

View attachment 523783

Given an incubation period of 1-2 weeks, what changed in mid-September?

 

[Legallybald]

Given an incubation period of 1-2 weeks, what changed in mid-September?

The onset of Autumn?

 

[HLD DMR]

The onset of Autumn?

This side of the pond it was Thanksgiving that put us on the upward winding road we’re on now, people didn’t listen about gatherings. Our graph is basically identical, but not trending downward.