Covid Passports - Yay or ney?

Should we have have Covid passports?


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No I don't want them tested. Nor anyone else arriving at the UK border, legally or otherwise. I've already stated this, on this thread, very recently.

The testing isn't "protecting" us any more. It is a money making racket and it should be fucked off at the high port and pronto.
The subject matter experts on this disagree with you on this subject. I will defer to them on this.

You may have a different opinion - but it is worthless and not due consideration.
 
We've had enough of experts
Great - so you will let a random tramp fix your car when it needs a service and let some bloke from the restaurant slice you open if you need surgery? I’m not a pilot but I will have a go at flying your EasyJet to Majorca next summer if you want?

Or do you just reject the knowledge and skills of experts in the relevant fields when it contradicts your opinion on the matter. When some of the best scientists and doctors in the world are recommending that testing is a useful tool then I listen to them.
 

jinxy

LE
I have been vaccinated and have the NHS app, so I have a covid passport on tap. Don't see the issue myself.

Not planning on going anywhere at the minute anyway and I think if you are, tuff if you get fucked over.
 

GDog

Old-Salt
Great - so you will let a random tramp fix your car when it needs a service and let some bloke from the restaurant slice you open if you need surgery? I’m not a pilot but I will have a go at flying your EasyJet to Majorca next summer if you want?

Or do you just reject the knowledge and skills of experts in the relevant fields when it contradicts your opinion on the matter. When some of the best scientists and doctors in the world are recommending that testing is a useful tool then I listen to them.
I chose Gove's quote on purpose.

This isn't a discussion about trivial topics such as car mechanics, being a pilot or deciding if the earth is round.

The Covid "experts" told us the July 19th plans would cause some kind of Covid apocalypse. They were wrong. Not for the first time.
 

GDog

Old-Salt
I have been vaccinated and have the NHS app, so I have a covid passport on tap. Don't see the issue myself.

Not planning on going anywhere at the minute anyway and I think if you are, tuff if you get fucked over.
Not very helpful for people that have jobs requiring lots of overseas travel, such as oil/gas staff.

"I'd love to help put out the oil rig fire but unfortunately I'm in a quarantine hotel"
 
I chose Gove's quote on purpose.

This isn't a discussion about trivial topics such as car mechanics, being a pilot or deciding if the earth is round.

The Covid "experts" told us the July 19th plans would cause some kind of Covid apocalypse. They were wrong. Not for the first time.
No - the actions of the Government was based on the conclusions of the SAGE committee.

Lots of other people with it seems a political agenda issued a warning over this action. And you either listen to experts or you don’t - my comparison was valid.

Not very helpful for people that have jobs requiring lots of overseas travel, such as oil/gas staff.

"I'd love to help put out the oil rig fire but unfortunately I'm in a quarantine hotel"
It’s a good job that certain sectors can apply for exemptions from self-isolation (with caveats).
 

GDog

Old-Salt
No - the actions of the Government was based on the conclusions of the SAGE committee.

Lots of other people with it seems a political agenda issued a warning over this action. And you either listen to experts or you don’t - my comparison was valid.


It’s a good job that certain sectors can apply for exemptions from self-isolation (with caveats).
 

Revie

Clanker
No - the actions of the Government was based on the conclusions of the SAGE committee.

Lots of other people with it seems a political agenda issued a warning over this action. And you either listen to experts or you don’t - my comparison was valid.


It’s a good job that certain sectors can apply for exemptions from self-isolation (with caveats).

It really isn't binary.

The decisions were civilization-wide value judgements, not minor technicalities. The very last people you want making such decisions are those that have dedicated their lives to extreme specialisms.

They can advise and what they think might happen, but they're always going to be biased in favour of that which they personally consider more important than any other aspect of existence.

Politics is completely redundant if value judgements are, by default, handed over to specialists.

Also, they're all left-wing.
 
It really isn't binary.

The decisions were civilization-wide value judgements, not minor technicalities. The very last people you want making such decisions are those that have dedicated their lives to extreme specialisms.

They can advise and what they think might happen, but they're always going to be biased in favour of that which they personally consider more important than any other aspect of existence.

Politics is completely redundant if value judgements are, by default, handed over to specialists.

Also, they're all left-wing.
Good job that SAGE only advise - government makes the decision based on this advice. If you have ever worked with a SCIAD you might be aware of the relationship between specialist scientific advisors and decision making.

The clue is in the second letter of their name.
 

Revie

Clanker
Good job that SAGE only advise - government makes the decision based on this advice. If you have ever worked with a SCIAD you might be aware of the relationship between specialist scientific advisors and decision making.

The clue is in the second letter of their name.

Ideally, yes. But the machinations of the media; the speed of internet communication; the erroneous cultural assumption that science exists in a third, objective sphere separate to bias and human nature; bureaucratic group-think in international institutions; election cycle short-termism, and fear has meant that political decision-making has largely been abdicated to whatever the 'advisors' (and/or the focus groups) say. It's become very algorithmic.

Also, was there every an instance in which government advisors were appearing on TV every night, and that was an acceptable thing to do?
 
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Ideally, yes. But the machinations of the media; the speed of internet communication; the erroneous cultural assumption that science exists in a third, objective sphere separate to bias and human nature; bureaucratic group-think in international institutions; election cycle short-termism, and fear has meant that political decision-making has largely been abdicated to whatever the 'advisors' (and/or the focus groups) say. It's become very algorithmic.

Also, was there every an instance in which government advisors were appearing on TV every night, and that was an acceptable thing to do?
If you think that then you have not been paying attention - a certain director of communications took part in a number of SAGE meetings and I am sure that his input/read on the situation was included.

You do know that (IIRC) a lot of the SAGE minutes have been published through the GOV.UK medium and that if you were so inclined you could go through and compare how their advice compared to decisions made by the government later.
 

GDog

Old-Salt
It really isn't binary.

The decisions were civilization-wide value judgements, not minor technicalities. The very last people you want making such decisions are those that have dedicated their lives to extreme specialisms.

They can advise and what they think might happen, but they're always going to be biased in favour of that which they personally consider more important than any other aspect of existence.

Politics is completely redundant if value judgements are, by default, handed over to specialists.

Also, they're all left-wing.
I was a government specialist for a brief period of time, but I fucked it off for a proper salary and career path...

I wonder why the lifers are all left-wing.
 
I find it bemusing how glibly people rattle this line off now. Was this ever a concern with any previous vaccine you've ever had? I must have had about 10, as an adult, and this is the first time anyone has mentioned it. Are you fretting about everything else you've ever been vaccinated for as well?
Its technically not a vaccine mate, its a medical trial. All the data including side effects and deaths and what have you are being collated as we post. The vaccines we all had as children and adults were tested over years, some decades.
 
Its technically not a vaccine mate, its a medical trial. All the data including side effects and deaths and what have you are being collated as we post. The vaccines we all had as children and adults were tested over years, some decades.

Yep. Vaccines developed the real scientific way take 15-20 years, but they do work. Get the smallpox or polio jabs, never worry about those things again, and never worry if anyone nearby has had them, because you’re protected. For the rest of your life.

Now we have “The Science” which rapidly produces jabs that don’t work and you have to keep having them and anyone who makes this observation is an “anti-vaxxer”. Weird, right? And by sheer coincidence a huge money-spinner for various huge corporations, and a vote-winner for all kinds of previously taboo laws and policies.
 
Yep. Vaccines developed the real scientific way take 15-20 years, but they do work. Get the smallpox or polio jabs, never worry about those things again, and never worry if anyone nearby has had them, because you’re protected. For the rest of your life.

Now we have “The Science” which rapidly produces jabs that don’t work and you have to keep having them and anyone who makes this observation is an “anti-vaxxer”. Weird, right? And by sheer coincidence a huge money-spinner for various huge corporations, and a vote-winner for all kinds of previously taboo laws and policies.
Yep, it's one huge NWO and Big Pharma conspiracy. And the covid vaccines don't protect, do they, as they are just trials?

@Bob65 - and what do you mean by 'real science' versus 'The Science"? Is it the ability to undertake, inter alia, Big Data numerical modelling that didn't exist 10 years ago?
 
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Not to put to fine a point on it...most of the 'jabs' you had as kids were developed by single labs, under great secrecy over a number of years (money) !

The Covid Vaccine in all it's different iterations,was developed in record time because...thousands of 'scientists' all around the World were working towards the same end and,sharing knowledge. Thousands of 'Man Hours' over a short period of time are equal to, years of 'Man Hours' at a small research Facility !

By the way, Smallpox research amounted to a couple of scratches by Edward Jenner on an 8-year old boy,back in 1796.
 

Cold_Collation

LE
Book Reviewer
Not to put to fine a point on it...most of the 'jabs' you had as kids were developed by single labs, under great secrecy over a number of years (money) !

The Covid Vaccine in all it's different iterations,was developed in record time because...thousands of 'scientists' all around the World were working towards the same end and,sharing knowledge. Thousands of 'Man Hours' over a short period of time are equal to, years of 'Man Hours' at a small research Facility !

By the way, Smallpox research amounted to a couple of scratches by Edward Jenner on an 8-year old boy,back in 1796.
And also a lot of precursor research had been done to address swine flu. It wasn't a full-on cold start.
 
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