Covid Passports - Yay or ney?

Should we have have Covid passports?


  • Total voters
    190

ancienturion

LE
Book Reviewer
For now.
Sadly, There's other variants brewing from Africa, Asia and S America .
That's why vaccination is so important and why I cannot understand people who won't do it. We are trying to stop the virus mutating into more virulent strains as well as stopping people from getting the disease. It not just about me anymore, it's about the bloke sitting next to me, his family and his dependants as well.
 

ancienturion

LE
Book Reviewer
ones not one's please.
Actually the line is:
https://www.lyrics.com/.../Hank+Thompson/You+Always+Hurt+the+One+You
Damn, there goes my thin veneer of intellectualism. :x Time for some self-flagellation. (I was going to do it anyway but I’ll dedicate this session to the site.)
 

Mufulira42

Old-Salt
Could be tricky catering for annual shots as the bug mutates a la flu.

No problem if it's added to the yellow fever card one carries for entry to certain countries and treated in the same manner. The shit will creep in when it becomes a self licking lollipop, as is highly likely considering the hysteria around things as they stand. Another bit of paper for the windy to demand and faint in coils over when it's not forthcoming, along with drama whores making an issue of shunning those who don't comply with their excitable demands.

Winding each other up on social media because Kylie wants to go to Ibiza and doesn't have the latest trendy shot is going to become arse clenchingly irritating.
Had my 1st jab a day or so ago and presented my Yellow Fever card and it was promptly signed with day/batch number etc, as there is space for ;other inoculations' no biggie at all. Plus exit a printout from Ministry of "Elf person attesting to jab OK
 

ancienturion

LE
Book Reviewer

happyuk

War Hero
No.

But I'm perfectly OK for a vaccination certificate for things like yellow fever (which still applies to enter certain countries, and a paper certificate is still needed). Website here.

But smallpox and yellow fever were/are fairly serious things, smallpox especially so. And their vaccines are totally different from the mRNA 'vaccine', which isn't a vaccine at all.

There's something quite different happening here and now. To compare covid with something like smallpox is to compare a bruised knee with a badly broken leg.
 
Maybe I'm just uneasy about governments extending their powers over the population. I've had the vaccine and carry my little bit of card stating such. I'm happy to do so.

Given that the WHO is quite happy with China's actions over at the start of Covid, they weren't at fault at all. I'd question how unbiased they might be in other areas. Prof Ferguson likewise said one thing and did another way before Mr Cummings got pilloried for his northern excursion

I will be pleasantly surprised if the easing of restrictions proceeds according to plan. I think the government has done the best in trying circumstances and shudder to think what the labour party would have done. Some trust the government implicitly in all circumstances some don't, I fall into the latter category.

How you get 're-hashed anti Semitic New World Order conspiracy stuff.' from my post says more about your views than mine which have always tended towards the cock up rather than conspiracy theory of history.:)
I wasn’t implying you were using re-hashed anti Semitic conspiracy theories. I’ve seen many people elsewhere commenting on this whole thing is being used as a control mechanism.

I don’t know what this government control conspiracy end aim is though.

I’ve even come across people claiming vaccination is all about population control and more people will be alive if there was no vaccinations ever. Something to do with Bill Gates and The UN wanting to reduce the worlds population.

The UKs always enjoyed freedom compared to the rest of the EU. That’s why the U.K. won’t accept mandatory ID cards.

Hiwever, in a global pandemic, sometimes things need to change and I suspect they’ll change temporarily.
We’ve rolled out national ID schemes twice in the U.K. one during WW1 and the other during WW2. Both times there was good arguments for keeping them going. Both times they were dropped at the earliest possible opportunity.

as I’ve said before. Domestic Covid passports may be problematic , but once the whole population is done they can be dropped. I suspect we’ll see stamps out in passports for a bit longer. I think that will be mutually on an international level. (We don’t mind you visiting our country but we want you vaccinated.) so I don’t necessarily think that’s going to be nationally driven. I.e France and the U.K. both say no to domestic vaccination passports for political reasons. Both agree to international travel vaccination passports. Unvaccinated Brit can leave the UK but can’t go to France so by default they can’t leave the country. Politically more palatable.
 
Exactly the same as Winston Churchill's objection to it, that it fundamentally alters the relationship between the individual and the state. That argument ought to persuade Boris easily since he strives to be like Churchill in all things, but he is turning into Blair if he continues down this path.



Yes it is hard to tell.
I don’t think he is turning in to Blair. Churchill introduced them out of necessity and got rid of them when he could. As I suspect Boris will. Blair and Sturgeon will probably advocate their retention with political allegiance added onto them.
 
I don’t know what this government control conspiracy end aim is though.

A conspiracy doesn't have to be a mysterious group meeting in a private members club, plotting over brandy and cigars. Let me ask you this, have you ever thought, even for a second "things would be better if I was in charge"? Well every member of SAGE has tasted a little bit of that, and they want more of it, and they don't even have to say it out loud, they are all thinking "wouldn't it be good to have a proper scientific government". The ivory tower has always had contempt for the plebs that support them, why are they allowed to vote, they don't even have PhDs! Or coppers who thought how much easier their jobs would be if only the public were more obedient. Or healthcare workers basking in the adulation. Or civil servants and teachers at home on full pay, popping open another bottle of prosecco on a Zoom call with their mates. Or Karens screeching "we're in the middle of a pandemic!", it makes them feel like they are part of something important, that they are important. Curtain-twitchers and busybodies the nation over all finally feel they can get one over on their neighbours who went out for TWO walks today.

Lots of people are doing far better out of lockdown than they otherwise would have and they would all like it to continue, would like more power to amass to "people like us" (them, I mean). There's your conspiracy.

I don’t think he is turning in to Blair. Churchill introduced them out of necessity and got rid of them when he could. As I suspect Boris will. Blair and Sturgeon will probably advocate their retention with political allegiance added onto them.

I hope you're right.
 

Chef

LE
I wasn’t implying you were using re-hashed anti Semitic conspiracy theories. I’ve seen many people elsewhere commenting on this whole thing is being used as a control mechanism.

I don’t know what this government control conspiracy end aim is though.

I’ve even come across people claiming vaccination is all about population control and more people will be alive if there was no vaccinations ever. Something to do with Bill Gates and The UN wanting to reduce the worlds population. Edited for brevity.
I don't think there is an end game as such. Just having the population aquiescent is enough. Whilst 'Hot Fuzz' is not a documentary the idea of 'For the greater good' is very appealing to the authorities. When governments get them it doesn't seem to end well as they're not expecting it.

As @Bob65 says who hsan't thought they could run it better? If suddenly given that power how many would actually wield it effectively and how many would help their mates first and if the real problems are solved so much the better. (Like real life politicos if you think about it).

As far as the covid bits go I reckon the government is doing ok, I just don't trust them to relinquish the extra powers they've picked up since 2020 any too easily.

As for Bill Gates' s involvement, I've had my first jab and my Sony Ericksson still wont send e-mails. Very disappointing.
 
I don't think there is an end game as such. Just having the population aquiescent is enough. Whilst 'Hot Fuzz' is not a documentary the idea of 'For the greater good' is very appealing to the authorities. When governments get them it doesn't seem to end well as they're not expecting it.

As @Bob65 says who hsan't thought they could run it better? If suddenly given that power how many would actually wield it effectively and how many would help their mates first and if the real problems are solved so much the better. (Like real life politicos if you think about it).

As far as the covid bits go I reckon the government is doing ok, I just don't trust them to relinquish the extra powers they've picked up since 2020 any too easily.

As for Bill Gates' s involvement, I've had my first jab and my Sony Ericksson still wont send e-mails. Very disappointing.
They already have the power.
Passports.
Mental health act.
Judiciary.
RIPA.
 

WightMivvi

War Hero
As I always say when people start talking about conspiracies; as a mid-ranking (ex) civil servant, any conspiracy would require people like me, my friends and my ex-colleagues to support it if the conspiracy was to succeed. The level of cooperation, coordination, competence, control and discretion would be massive.

Believe me, were not that good. (But then I would say that, wouldn’t I...)

As an example of the awesomeness of the people required to successfully support a conspiracy, one of the most organised, intelligent and capable people I ever worked with once went to Scotland with her new boyfriend and asked him where the town of “Atob” was, because a lot of taxis seemed to come from there...
 
As I always say when people start talking about conspiracies; as a mid-ranking (ex) civil servant, any conspiracy would require people like me, my friends and my ex-colleagues to support it if the conspiracy was to succeed. The level of cooperation, coordination, competence, control and discretion would be massive.

Believe me, were not that good

I am in Wales and if you look at any of our mountains here you will see certain features. One of which is streams running down the mountain, noone planned them and dug them, the water naturally found the most efficient route down and then wore those streams into the ground over time. Or you will see sheep tracks criss-crossing the mountains, noone planned those like roads, the sheep just found the best natural contours in the land and kept using them. And that's how "conspiracies" work, there are a set of conditions which may be set artificially or may spontaneously emerge without planning, and people see that choosing COA A instead of B is to their advantage and then without any sort of central coordination at all, everyone sort of meanders in the same direction, jostling for a place near but not quite at the front, but always moving further without even having a destination in mind.

Such as each individual SAGE member independently realising that the bigger scare story they can give directly to the press, the higher their personal prestige, the greater the power they personally wield (which is its own incentive), the more funding they might be able to attract in future... There's no shadowy figure pulling the strings, there doesn't have to be.

(I don't claim to be immune from this effect myself, everyone will respond to incentives, explicitly or implicitly)
 

WightMivvi

War Hero
I am in Wales and if you look at any of our mountains here you will see certain features. One of which is streams running down the mountain, noone planned them and dug them, the water naturally found the most efficient route down and then wore those streams into the ground over time. Or you will see sheep tracks criss-crossing the mountains, noone planned those like roads, the sheep just found the best natural contours in the land and kept using them. And that's how "conspiracies" work, there are a set of conditions which may be set artificially or may spontaneously emerge without planning, and people see that choosing COA A instead of B is to their advantage and then without any sort of central coordination at all, everyone sort of meanders in the same direction, jostling for a place near but not quite at the front, but always moving further without even having a destination in mind.

Such as each individual SAGE member independently realising that the bigger scare story they can give directly to the press, the higher their personal prestige, the greater the power they personally wield (which is its own incentive), the more funding they might be able to attract in future... There's no shadowy figure pulling the strings, there doesn't have to be.

(I don't claim to be immune from this effect myself, everyone will respond to incentives, explicitly or implicitly)
What you’re describing is, to me, not a conspiracy but “building a narrative”, or “jumping on the bandwagon”. The environment is allowing the river to flow, and other streams, brooks, rivulets etc are joining it as it flows along. There is no overarching aim apart from getting to the sea and all the waterways join and become one entity with that one aim.

A conspiracy requires coordination and control. What you are seeing is opportunism. Whilst the overarching aim is to get to the “sea“ (in this case to obtain power) the different streams will eventually split and compete with each other.
 
A conspiracy requires coordination and control. What you are seeing is opportunism. Whilst the overarching aim is to get to the “sea“ (in this case to obtain power) the different streams will eventually split and compete with each other.

Sure. A few posts back the topic was national ID cards by the backdoor under the guise of COVID passports. Blair tried for force it through by diktat and failed, so is there a conspiracy now to do it? No, and there doesn't need to be, there is a critical mass of people whose incentives are well served prolonging the crisis and this is one way to do it.
 
Sure. A few posts back the topic was national ID cards by the backdoor under the guise of COVID passports. Blair tried for force it through by diktat and failed, so is there a conspiracy now to do it? No, and there doesn't need to be, there is a critical mass of people whose incentives are well served prolonging the crisis and this is one way to do it.
For most people, the incentive is simply to bring forward the date when we can have some semblance of normality.
If we have to go through another wave of infection and another lockdown because of a refusal to accept "covid passports" it will be akin to cutting our collective noses off to spite our collective face.
 
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