Covid Passports - Yay or ney?

[lastwalt]

Okay, so what's your objection to a national ID card?

I genuinely wonder, as an aside, what the national mood is about one at the moment. Not the MSM's and agitators', but the 'illiterate rabble' who gave the Tories an 80-seat majority.

Twice in my life I have had to have a national ID card. Once when I lived in Germany and the other time when I lived in Switzerland. In neither case did I experience even a hint of the wild allegations put out in this thread about how these would be used to oppress the population.
I don't ever even remember being asked to produce them except for things like opening a bank account, which process in the UK is a bit of ball-ache with the documentation that one has to produce simply because we don't have a simple way of proving identity.

Incidentally, when I lived in the US, I discovered quite quickly that the Drivers License (sic) is a de facto ID. Without it, it was impossible to e.g. rent a musical instrument for my son.

 

[ches]

Any retard who is still pedalling the 'this is only a cough' rubbish needs to give their head a wobble. We've got relatives & friends across all ages who have either died, are suffering long term respiratory effects or had a brief fly like episode. None of the people we know who have had COVID had any underlying health issues. I've even got a super fit gym queen mate who gasps up a flight of stairs 4 months after having had it. So shove your, this ain't that serious bollocks up yer arse.

Totally for COVID proof being carried if you want access to some services. What those services are will be down to the private owners of those services - pubs, hotels, venues etc. Its their playpen & their rules. The comparison someone made earlier in the thread to the workplace legislation changes & smoking are going to be pretty much what employers will have to consider. It matters not (who smoked to continue the comparison or) who infected a colleague with COVID it is the risk of litigation that will be the overriding factor. Ask cabin crew to man an aircraft & someone gets infected & then faces possible long term illness & you're into a legal minefield of potential litigation. Employers have a duty of care, COVID has added to that. Simple.

 

[retread2]

Is one of the objections to an ID card not cultural/political in that introducing it will expose how many illegal immigrants are living in the UK?

 

[adouglasmhor]

Is there any evidence of anyone having natural immunity to SARS-CoV-2 virus? Other than acquired immunity after having been infected?

There was a study from either Malaysia or Indonesia which suggested some of those who had been infected with SARS in it's original outbreak had at least a partial immunity. But I can't find the study or an article on it.

 

[lastwalt]

Is one of the objections to an ID card not cultural/political in that introducing it will expose how many illegal immigrants are living in the UK?

Except that I don't think that those bleating about a Covid passport being an ID card by the back-door on this thread would very likely identify themselves as belonging to the sort of left-leaning, urban woke demographic that you are describing.

I may be wrong. Over to you guys.

 

[Graculus]

What he won't tell you is...both the British Strain (which originated in Italy) or, the Kentish Strain...arrived from the EU !

Do you have any evidence for this statement?

Not a fan of using geographic descriptors, covid variant B.1.1.7 much better IMO but I've seen no evidence that any arrived from the EU and the spread patterns would argue against it.

 

[Chef]

Outdoors. It’s the indoor stuff that’s the main issue.

simple question. Why does the government, every other government, the entire medical and scientific community and organisations such as the world health organisation want to propagate fear?

what possible alternative to ‘its necessary’ is there for keeping pumping money into a furlough scheme to prop up the hospitality and gym trade other than to control a pandemic?

Please do tell me. I’ve asked numerous people who are claiming all of this is unnecessary. I can never get a real answer out of them other than re-hashed anti Semitic New World Order conspiracy stuff.

in you’re own time .......go on.

Maybe I'm just uneasy about governments extending their powers over the population. I've had the vaccine and carry my little bit of card stating such. I'm happy to do so.

Given that the WHO is quite happy with China's actions over at the start of Covid, they weren't at fault at all. I'd question how unbiased they might be in other areas. Prof Ferguson likewise said one thing and did another way before Mr Cummings got pilloried for his northern excursion

I will be pleasantly surprised if the easing of restrictions proceeds according to plan. I think the government has done the best in trying circumstances and shudder to think what the labour party would have done. Some trust the government implicitly in all circumstances some don't, I fall into the latter category.

How you get 're-hashed anti Semitic New World Order conspiracy stuff.' from my post says more about your views than mine which have always tended towards the cock up rather than conspiracy theory of history.

 

[lastwalt]

There was a study from either Malaysia or Indonesia which suggested some of those who had been infected with SARS in it's original outbreak had at least a partial immunity. But I can't find the study or an article on it.

I had a quick google and couldn't find anything either. I wouldn't be surprised if there was some pre-existing immunity based on exposure to other coronaviruses, but given how quickly it spreads it would be surprising if it was many.

 

[samain11]

It's no different to having a certificate for the likes of yellow fever.

I hope you are right, but fear not.

 

[Cold_Collation]

Is one of the objections to an ID card not cultural/political in that introducing it will expose how many illegal immigrants are living in the UK?

From some quarters very much so, yes.

 

[adouglasmhor]

I had a quick google and couldn't find anything either. I wouldn't be surprised if there was some pre-existing immunity based on exposure to other coronaviruses, but given how quickly it spreads it would be surprising if it was many.

I think something like almost 30% of colds are coronaviruses, the vast majority of the rest being rhinoviruses. But I will point out I am not a medical professional nor do I play one on TV.

 

[samain11]

which have always tended towards the cock up rather than conspiracy theory of history.

Any reading of history by a sentient being would support that, "piss up in a brewery" is the rule that you must always keep in mind.
I like our system in the UK, as disjointed as it can appear at times, it has spared us a lot of shit.

 

[Cold_Collation]

Exactly the same as Winston Churchill's objection to it, that it fundamentally alters the relationship between the individual and the state. That argument ought to persuade Boris easily since he strives to be like Churchill in all things, but he is turning into Blair if he continues down this path.

The state's relationship with the individual has changed quite incredibly since WSC's day. It would be interesting to see what his view now would be given technological advances.

An ID card doesn't fundamentally change things. It could be introduced along with rules which govern who and how. The positives far outweigh the negatives and things don't need to go as far as Blair was proposing.*




*Arguably, the proposals he made were designed to make the ID card idea unpopular, in order that Labour could conceal the migrant issues which were of its making.

 

[Cold_Collation]

I think something like almost 30% of colds are coronaviruses, the vast majority of the rest being rhinoviruses. But I will point out I am not a medical professional nor do I play one on TV.

All all I can say then is well done to the Chinese for hunting them to extinction.

They were on to something.

 

[Bob65]

The state's relationship with the individual has changed quite incredibly since WSC's day. It would be interesting to see what his view now would be given technological advances.

You can look at much of the Continent where they prefer a Napoleonic style legal system in which the default state is that anything is illegal unless specifically permitted and contrast it with the Anglo-Saxon system in which everything is legal unless specifically banned. That hasn't changed. A national ID card with an army of petty officials, functionaries and bureaucrats demanding "papers please" flips us to the other system, or attempts to and puts the enabling pieces in place. That's why Blair was so keen, it was a stepping stone for him in his dream of becoming President of Europe swanning around in Blair Force One.

An ID card doesn't fundamentally change things. It could be introduced along with rules which govern who and how. The positives far outweigh the negatives and things don't need to go as far as Blair was proposing.*

Rules can easily be changed, COVID is proof of that, any sufficient emergency can be piggybacked on to make any changes outside of democratic or legislative oversight.

*Arguably, the proposals he made were designed to make the ID card idea unpopular, in order that Labour could conceal the migrant issues which were of its making.

Gripping that once and for all is the only sound argument in favour but I am still not convinced it is overall worth it

 

[OneTenner]

Ignoring Brexit for the moment, we have dogs that we take away on holiday with us, they (did) require pet passports which had their ID chip number (which can be traced back to us) and their vaccination details, including which vet carried them out, when, the batch number andd other details to PID the animal and ensure it had the correct vaccinations to allow travel. Depending how long we were out of UK, we also had to arrange further vaccinations & tests before we could return to the UK with them.

As far as i'm aware, no-one kicked up a fuss about pet passports, most welcomed them, despite them being capable of identifying the associated humans as well. I really can't see the issue of having a similar scheme for humans that wish to travel, or visit places with large gatherings of people - none of which has ever been mandatory, If you choose to go abroad or to large public gatherings, you take a bit of paper or a QR code to prove you satisfy the conditions for travel or entry. Why is that such a problem?

 

[exbleep]

Is one of the objections to an ID card not cultural/political in that introducing it will expose how many illegal immigrants are living in the UK?

I doubt it. This is UK, after all. ID cards may be issued at some time in the future but there will be no law saying you have to carry it all times. I mean, UK must be one of the few countries where you don't have to carry your driving licence when driving.

It'll just be used when you want to access something official or prove your ID. Getting benefits for the first time, replace the NI card, taking out a loan, opening a bank account or whatever. I remember when my Dad died and we tried to get his bank account transferred to my Mum. No driving licence, no in date passport and no chance. In the end we had to get someone with an account at the same bank to sign to say they knew her before they would do it. NI card, post office savings book, store cards etc were not acceptable.

But actually having to carry it and show it on demand will not happen in UK.

 

[ches]

While i doubt the veracity of claims about ID cards via the backdoor as part of the COVID passport schemes, its a bit naïve to think that an actual ID card is going to be something new to allow the govt to watch or control us. Considering the fact that we have more CCTV than most countries much of it with associated face rec capability, massive use of electronic payments, smart phones are the norm & various other interactions with each other & the state on a daily basis, any tracking of the population is already enabled. The problem is that there simply isn't the computing power available in the UK to allow that data to be centrally harvested & categorised. Lest face it, cent govt IT process procurement over the last 20 years has been mostly an epic balls up. I'd have more to fear from pigeons sat on the fence watching me.

 

[ABNredleg]

Do you have any evidence for this statement?

Not a fan of using geographic descriptors, covid variant B.1.1.7 much better IMO but I've seen no evidence that any arrived from the EU and the spread patterns would argue against it.

We’re perfectly happy to blame you. Bastards!!

U.K. coronavirus variant is now the dominant strain in the U.S., CDC says

 

[Cold_Collation]

I'd have more to fear from pigeons sat on the fence watching me.