Covid Passports - Yay or ney?

Should we have have Covid passports?


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GDog

Old-Salt
Public liability payouts are likely to skyrocket if people are getting ill, or even dying from picking up contagious diseases in public places. Therefore passports make sense from an economic sense
Bollocks.

This wasn't true before Covid and it won't be true after. Lawsuits and prosecutions about spreading disease are rare and hard to prove.

Any twat trying to sue me for giving them Covid will be promptly asked to prove they didn't get it from somewhere else and duly sent packing once they've failed to do so. It will not be sufficient to blame me because you can find a rule that wasn't followed.
 

GDog

Old-Salt
I think it's fair to say that one of the indicators of a developed society is that it seeks to protect (not always perfectly, or as well as it should) its weak and old and include them in family life for as long as possible. You seem to be of the opinion that they should be excluded?
If I could have visited my father, gone on holiday with him and have had the support of wider family and friends when he was dying then I'd like to think we both would have traded that in exchange for an extra 6-12 months of the miserable dystopia that passed for life under Covid rules.

Given the average age of death was something like 83 the effect it's had on anyone that died of other causes under that age is harrowing.
 
@GDog - you appear to have had a busy few minutes on here.
Perhaps spend a few more minutes studying your naiveity - on several measures.

Im not going to spell it out...Im up again in 6 hours.
 
Bollocks.

This wasn't true before Covid and it won't be true after. Lawsuits and prosecutions about spreading disease are rare and hard to prove.

Any twat trying to sue me for giving them Covid will be promptly asked to prove they didn't get it from somewhere else and duly sent packing once they've failed to do so. It will not be sufficient to blame me because you can find a rule that wasn't followed.
It’s not about you being sued. It’s about who owns what you’re in.

this was one of the driving forces behind the smoking ban. Insurance companies saw a huge risk by workers making claims against employers for passive smoking.

why are you so dead against doing the right thing? Are you against vaccinations as well?
 
That Dr Fauci - who seems to be the American equivalent of our Neil Ferguson - is now claiming that there is a new variant that "evades the test" and so masks must continue to be worn. It's clever that COVID, like it can tell if you're eating a scotch egg or a substantial meal and knows when to infect you.
Unfortunately, that’s what vaccines do. They adapt and change. So unless the test is looking for that specific variant, it’s not going to see it.
 
If I could have visited my father, gone on holiday with him and have had the support of wider family and friends when he was dying then I'd like to think we both would have traded that in exchange for an extra 6-12 months of the miserable dystopia that passed for life under Covid rules.

Given the average age of death was something like 83 the effect it's had on anyone that died of other causes under that age is harrowing.
Harrowing for everybody irrespective of cause of death.
 
Unfortunately, that’s what vaccines do. They adapt and change. So unless the test is looking for that specific variant, it’s not going to see it.

So masks, lockdown, furlough etc forever then? In other news the UK is expected to reach herd immunity on Monday. Just in time for the pubs to reopen!
 

OneTenner

LE
Book Reviewer
If I could have visited my father, gone on holiday with him and have had the support of wider family and friends when he was dying then I'd like to think we both would have traded that in exchange for an extra 6-12 months of the miserable dystopia that passed for life under Covid rules.

Given the average age of death was something like 83 the effect it's had on anyone that died of other causes under that age is harrowing.
My Father died of a long-term respiratory illness in Feb. 2001, a day before his 70th. Birthday, I was in Kosovo at the time and it took me three days to get home.
I had two weeks to deal with everything before I had to leave UK again, I hadn't seen him for around six months and was planning to see him in March.
Now who do I blame? MoD, Serbs or Kosovans - or myself for doing the job I did at the time?
 

OneTenner

LE
Book Reviewer
That would include the NHS surgical consultant who spoke to my mother in hospital regarding an upcoming gynae op. Because everybody in the room knew that the masks were a pointless piece of theatre but we all had to go through the motions until it was a communication barrier and then it suddenly didn't matter. Quelle surprise.

On the second point, good for you. Try dealing with watching your father die of cancer without any family support, a neurotic mother that may also be facing cancer and a social circle that all worked in the technical side of the entertainments industry before it was thrown under the bus for an illness that gives most people a cough. I can assure you that the last 12 months have felt pretty ******* restrictive and onerous from my point of view.

HMG can shove its covid passports up its arse.

From a technical and practical point of view the policy is yet another fuckwitted expensive failure in the making.

From a political and ethical point of view the policy is even worse, seemingly happy to throw fundamentals like medical confidentiality and the right to refuse (or not to be unduly coerced into taking) medication under the bus simply because two thirds of the country have no proportionate understanding of risk.
I'm sorry to hear of your family issues, however, it's a bit like asking someone who's child has been hit by a car what they think of speed limits on urban roads - it's not going to be a balanced opinion in view of their personal experiences.
 

Chef

LE
Unfortunately, that’s what vaccines do. They adapt and change. So unless the test is looking for that specific variant, it’s not going to see it.
I think you mean the virus adapts and changes.

The vaccine remains the same.
 
So masks, lockdown, furlough etc forever then? In other news the UK is expected to reach herd immunity on Monday. Just in time for the pubs to reopen!
Not forever. Nobody’s ever said it was forever.

So we’ll go over this again. When you were born, there was a virus called influenza going around. It had been going around for some time.
As you grew up, you were constantly exposed to this influenza virus, but because you were young it didn’t really have an impact on your health.

As you get up you were exposed to more variants of influenza. You therefore build up a degree of natural immunity over time. However, the older you get, the more vulnerable you become, so for the more vulnerable in society we help protect them with what’s called a seasonal flu shot, that specifically targets the prevalent strain of influenza.

now this is the tricky bit. NOBODY has been exposed to a lifetime of variants of Covid because up until last year it doesn’t exist. That means people haven’t been exposed to a lifetime of variants to build up natural immunity to it.

So we’re stuck with a brand new virus, that’s more contagious than flu and also more deadly that nobody’s really been exposed to.

we then have the joys of viruses mutate. The start off benign, then gradually get deadlier and deadlier and deadlier, and then settle down a bit.

so a brand new virus, that has to go through its natural course means that we’ll be going through all of this for a few years. That is unless you can control your fear that’s manifesting itself it’s nonchalance can get under control. Otherwise we run the risk of undoing all of the hard work and having to start again.
 

Chef

LE
Why a certainty? There was no immediate spike last summer when restrictions lifted.

The sharp increase coincided with the September season of kids at school and fresher's 'flu. This year most people should have been offered a vaccine by September.
Firstly define spike. The government is quite coy on that subject. The number of cases attributable to the hospitality industry is between 2-5% hospitals 15-25%.

There seem to have been no spikes after the BLM riots, nor any after assorted raves and 'ignorant, selfish' people going to the beach or park. But it suits the narrative to play up those ones, subjectively, whilst downplaying others.

So yes I'd say there'll be a reported spike sometime during the easing of restrictions. It 's too good an opportunity to keep a bit of fear going. I'll go further and predict that some of the restrictions will be re-imposed or delayed to remind the public to behave.
 
Spikes are not the defining factor anymore as we vaccinate all UK Adults, it is hospitalisations that will be the defining factor. Vaccines will keep the disease at a manageable, however if the is a variant that causes a spike in ICU beds being swamped then that is where we will see restrictions re-imposed.

The number of cases that cause a mild non lethal issue are less of a worry.
 
Firstly define spike. The government is quite coy on that subject. The number of cases attributable to the hospitality industry is between 2-5% hospitals 15-25%.

There seem to have been no spikes after the BLM riots, nor any after assorted raves and 'ignorant, selfish' people going to the beach or park. But it suits the narrative to play up those ones, subjectively, whilst downplaying others.

So yes I'd say there'll be a reported spike sometime during the easing of restrictions. It 's too good an opportunity to keep a bit of fear going. I'll go further and predict that some of the restrictions will be re-imposed or delayed to remind the public to behave.
Outdoors. It’s the indoor stuff that’s the main issue.

simple question. Why does the government, every other government, the entire medical and scientific community and organisations such as the world health organisation want to propagate fear?

what possible alternative to ‘its necessary’ is there for keeping pumping money into a furlough scheme to prop up the hospitality and gym trade other than to control a pandemic?

Please do tell me. I’ve asked numerous people who are claiming all of this is unnecessary. I can never get a real answer out of them other than re-hashed anti Semitic New World Order conspiracy stuff.

in you’re own time .......go on.
 

Cold_Collation

LE
Book Reviewer
This really does seem to be going all around the houses.

@AfghanAndy mentions the use of ID cards in wartime. Okay, here goes...

There was/is a thread in which it was asked what WWIII would look like. I posted that in many respects it's happened in the last year and people just didn't notice.

War is effectively about wiping out the opposition's economy. Nazi Germany was a bit daft invading the Soviet Union, for instance. Stand fast on the idea that it was getting its retaliation in first; once the US threw its hat into the ring the game was over.

Yes, the top-level appearance is the numbers of tanks and guns and ships and aircraft you can pump out, etc., but that's really about the economy.

Look at the last 12-18 months. Economies have been plunged into trillions upon trillions of debt. Whether one believes that the Chinese introduced the virus deliberately or were victims as much as anyone else is mute; what they were doing, when markets hit the bottom last year, was buying shares furiously. They were shameless in exploiting a problem that, one way or another, they caused. China has inflicted untold damage on other countries' economies and then ruthlessly exploited it.

Where am I going with this?

Okay.

This last year, arguably, has had the effect of a global war - and globally, not just in one country.

The enemy isn't jackbooted or carrying guns. It's microscopic, not even human, and let's assume for now that its arrival was accidental.

But an enemy it certainly is. Defeating it isn't about manning the trenches. It's about controlling, for a time, movement and vaccinating/achieving herd immunity.

And make no mistake, this is a war. The magnitude, the effects, the continuing consequences for economies.

Governments, though, have continued to pretend to operate on a peacetime footing. Opposition parties, instead of acting in coalition, have looked to make political capital at almost every opportunity - again, a shameless act which shows both their naked opportunism and near-absolute lack of perspicacity.

It's a perception that people need to hoist on board. Instead, we've allowed the media to fixate on Wokeness, Marxist agitators to foment using race and 'rape culture' (probably aided in no small part by Russia's and China's electronic warriors), our national broadcaster to run its nakedly Grrrrr... Boris line.

In other words, the irresponsible, opportunistic and selfish have been allowed to have too much say. 'Vaccine anxiety' is being used as a term to excuse the ignorance of certain groups, when all it has really done is lay bare the lack of social cohesion. Policing certain communities has been at best difficult, and in reality impossible. You could compare some behaviour to Communist/union agitation in WWII. It's been that diametrically opposed to the good of the UK.

And at the end of all of that, those who arguably have done the least to help defeat this enemy are now crying about their 'rights' being affected by carrying an ID card.

Well, what about the majority? And what about their rights? What's more important, and are some people - and this does include non-BAME, before anyone tries to write this off as a racist rant - really pulling in the same direction as this country? Do they even want to be a part of this country?

If not, I'm happy to discount their objections, frankly.

@GDog writes about not being able to see his father. The same happened to one of my best friends. His father went into hospital and caught Covid in there. My friend got a phone call saying that best prognosis was 48 hours, and no he couldn't come in to see his father because of his own asthma. He's had his share of mental issues over the last year over that. But these aren't normal times. He accepts that, bloody hard though it has been.

The long and the short of it is that these are not normal times. Arguably, they are unique - hey, we've had two world wars, and only one pandemic on this scale.

But come back to agitation: the squealers want 'normal' life back. The way to that is through doing what needs to be done, not being selfish. If carrying a card that says you've conformed is a means of achieving that, just get on and bloody do it.
 
now this is the tricky bit. NOBODY has been exposed to a lifetime of variants of Covid because up until last year it doesn’t exist. That means people haven’t been exposed to a lifetime of variants to build up natural immunity to it.

Very tricky indeed, it's not as if COVID-19 is just one variant of a family of coronaviruses that in fact you do have a lifetime of exposure to. Oh wait it is! And also noone has natural immunity. Oh wait, they do!

Like I say I'm OK with disposable vaccine certificates. Backdoor national ID cards, not so much.
 
Very tricky indeed, it's not as if COVID-19 is just one variant of a family of coronaviruses that in fact you do have a lifetime of exposure to. Oh wait it is! And also noone has natural immunity. Oh wait, they do!

Like I say I'm OK with disposable vaccine certificates. Backdoor national ID cards, not so much.
Is there any evidence of anyone having natural immunity to SARS-CoV-2 virus? Other than acquired immunity after having been infected?
 

Cold_Collation

LE
Book Reviewer
Very tricky indeed, it's not as if COVID-19 is just one variant of a family of coronaviruses that in fact you do have a lifetime of exposure to. Oh wait it is! And also noone has natural immunity. Oh wait, they do!

Like I say I'm OK with disposable vaccine certificates. Backdoor national ID cards, not so much.
Okay, so what's your objection to a national ID card?

I genuinely wonder, as an aside, what the national mood is about one at the moment. Not the MSM's and agitators', but the 'illiterate rabble' who gave the Tories an 80-seat majority.
 
Okay, so what's your objection to a national ID card?

Exactly the same as Winston Churchill's objection to it, that it fundamentally alters the relationship between the individual and the state. That argument ought to persuade Boris easily since he strives to be like Churchill in all things, but he is turning into Blair if he continues down this path.

I genuinely wonder, as an aside, what the national mood is about one at the moment. Not the MSM's and agitators', but the 'illiterate rabble' who gave the Tories an 80-seat majority.

Yes it is hard to tell.
 

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