Covid disinformation in the BAME community

anglo

LE
Read some fo the above posts. You are less infectious if you've had the jab. That's as valid a part of breaking the infection chain as being vaccinated yourself.
You are less infectious if you've had the jab

Really,
By
David Z. Morris
December 22, 2020 4:47 PM GMT
But until long-term trial data or other experimental results are released, post-vaccine infectivity will be made clear only by measuring the spread of the coronavirus through populations with high vaccination levels. If the spread slows, it will demonstrate that transmission is lowered by vaccination. But it is expected to take much of 2021 to reach high levels of vaccination even in countries at the front of the line, so that approach could take the better part of a year.
According to the FDA, most vaccines that protect from viral illnesses also reduce viral transmission by those who are vaccinated, and there is reason for optimism that the current wave of COVID vaccines will, as well. Most notably, Moderna’s vaccine trial showed some reduction in asymptomatic infections as measured through nasal swabs, which could suggest reduced transmission after vaccination. Dr. Eric Topol of the Scripps Research Translational Institute has described those findings as inconclusive, but promising on the question of post-vaccine transmission.
Until more conclusive data arrives, though, the message from health authorities is clear: Even after you've been vaccinated, don't toss that face mask.
 

Joker62

ADC
Book Reviewer

ancienturion

LE
Book Reviewer
I'm sorry, I don't understand - 'power shouting'?

A means whereby one person/country/establishment decides it will achieve a distinct political advantage over another.
Presently being adopted by several nations and persons.
 
Hmmm, such a 'passport' style procedure could lead to lots of difficulties for several million people who were previously below the radar, and also to a governmant which prefers to look the other way. Hence there will be no passport system in general use, only (maybe) for specific small areas of employment with medically vulnerable patients and so on.
Opportunity to kill two birds with one stone - missed.
 
You are less infectious if you've had the jab

Really,
By
David Z. Morris
December 22, 2020 4:47 PM GMT
But until long-term trial data or other experimental results are released, post-vaccine infectivity will be made clear only by measuring the spread of the coronavirus through populations with high vaccination levels. If the spread slows, it will demonstrate that transmission is lowered by vaccination. But it is expected to take much of 2021 to reach high levels of vaccination even in countries at the front of the line, so that approach could take the better part of a year.
According to the FDA, most vaccines that protect from viral illnesses also reduce viral transmission by those who are vaccinated, and there is reason for optimism that the current wave of COVID vaccines will, as well. Most notably, Moderna’s vaccine trial showed some reduction in asymptomatic infections as measured through nasal swabs, which could suggest reduced transmission after vaccination. Dr. Eric Topol of the Scripps Research Translational Institute has described those findings as inconclusive, but promising on the question of post-vaccine transmission.
Until more conclusive data arrives, though, the message from health authorities is clear: Even after you've been vaccinated, don't toss that face mask.
You have to look at the date of that article. In December 2020, there was very little evidence for a reduction in infectiousness through the vaccine. This was because the only data available was from the clinical trials, and they weren’t designed to look for it, being primarily designed to test for safety and efficacy.
With the lack of evidence, it was prudent to assume that the vaccinated could still transmit infection.

However, we are more than two months further on and now have data from something like 19 million people in the UK have been vaccinated. Data is still being collected, but the early indications are that transmission is substantially reduced.

If you search for recent articles that discuss transmission rather than just looking for articles that support your contention, you will see this. I know this is arrse and this is a big ask, but try to have an open mind.
 

anglo

LE
You have to look at the date of that article. In December 2020, there was very little evidence for a reduction in infectiousness through the vaccine. This was because the only data available was from the clinical trials, and they weren’t designed to look for it, being primarily designed to test for safety and efficacy.
With the lack of evidence, it was prudent to assume that the vaccinated could still transmit infection.

However, we are more than two months further on and now have data from something like 19 million people in the UK have been vaccinated. Data is still being collected, but the early indications are that transmission is substantially reduced.

If you search for recent articles that discuss transmission rather than just looking for articles that support your contention, you will see this. I know this is arrse and this is a big ask, but try to have an open mind.
My original post was in answer to the question, "allowing a tradesman into my house"

19 Feb 2021
#631

It doesn't matter if the tradesman that works in my house as had the vaccine jab or not
either way one of them could still carry the virus, and thus infect me,
As long as I've had both my vaccine jabs, if I catch the virus it won't kill me {one hopes}
I could just as well catch the virus whilst out shopping as from a visiting tradesman,
I don't see what the problem is, {Except for care homes hospitals etc where close contact is involved}

Taken from your Quote,
"Data is still being collected, but the early indications are that transmission is substantially reduced."

People can still carry the virus then, so, my post is correct even now

"I know this is arrse and this is a big ask, but try to have an open mind"

WTF is that about
 

ex_colonial

On ROPS
On ROPs
The Govt has ruled out 24hr vaccine centres but hold on, white privilege????

Sent from my SM-N976B using Tapatalk


Its all about the miscalled "Religion of Peace" innit, I mean the Labour party MP's & certain major city Mayors would go ballistic if our Gov't didn't continue to pander to the increasingly demanding hordes who infest many of our cities and keep them in post with their corrupt voting practices!!
 
As both an employer and provider of care services, you have a duty of care to both employees and patients. Would it not be reasonable to say that knowingly choosing to place an unvaccinated employee in contact with vulnerable patients, some of whom are then infected from unknown sources, is a failure of your duty of care for patients as you have failed to minimise risk to them?

Such a case might be heard as a tort, based on your negligence as a manager, where the required 'proof' may be rather less than you hoped for. In other words, while you might not be allowed to insist on employees being vaccinated you still have a duty of care to the patients. If your employee lied to you about being vaccinated but you could show that you had good grounds to believe tht they were telling the truth then you might be off the negligence 'hook' but if they said they weren't vaccinated and you still rostered them in to contact with vulnerable patients, then you would be very responsible indeed. That could end up with all your staff being unusable for their contracted functions, which would be an interesting position to be in as a manager.
You are less infectious if you've had the jab

Really,
By
David Z. Morris
December 22, 2020 4:47 PM GMT
But until long-term trial data or other experimental results are released, post-vaccine infectivity will be made clear only by measuring the spread of the coronavirus through populations with high vaccination levels. If the spread slows, it will demonstrate that transmission is lowered by vaccination. But it is expected to take much of 2021 to reach high levels of vaccination even in countries at the front of the line, so that approach could take the better part of a year.
According to the FDA, most vaccines that protect from viral illnesses also reduce viral transmission by those who are vaccinated, and there is reason for optimism that the current wave of COVID vaccines will, as well. Most notably, Moderna’s vaccine trial showed some reduction in asymptomatic infections as measured through nasal swabs, which could suggest reduced transmission after vaccination. Dr. Eric Topol of the Scripps Research Translational Institute has described those findings as inconclusive, but promising on the question of post-vaccine transmission.
Until more conclusive data arrives, though, the message from health authorities is clear: Even after you've been vaccinated, don't toss that face mask.
The latest research shows that having either current available jab reduces transmissions by 75-80% after 3 weeks.

The science has moved on massively since e December last year.
 
I suppose dealing with being sued for negligence is OK then.
No realtive anywhere in any care setting has attempted to do that and to repeat there isn’t a legal mechanism to constructively dismiss someone for not doing something that they have a legal choice to do or not in the way you suggest.

No one, not the NHS or any care provider is currently genuinely proposing to do what you suggest, given that current refusal rates are roughly 25% or so across the board in health and social care.
 
No realtive anywhere in any care setting has attempted to do that and to repeat there isn’t a legal mechanism to constructively dismiss someone for not doing something that they have a legal choice to do or not in the way you suggest.

No one, not the NHS or any care provider is currently genuinely proposing to do what you suggest, given that current refusal rates are roughly 25% or so across the board in health and social care.

It doesnt matter how many times you tell them, they wont believe you.
 
As both an employer and provider of care services, you have a duty of care to both employees and patients. Would it not be reasonable to say that knowingly choosing to place an unvaccinated employee in contact with vulnerable patients, some of whom are then infected from unknown sources, is a failure of your duty of care for patients as you have failed to minimise risk to them?

Such a case might be heard as a tort, based on your negligence as a manager, where the required 'proof' may be rather less than you hoped for. In other words, while you might not be allowed to insist on employees being vaccinated you still have a duty of care to the patients. If your employee lied to you about being vaccinated but you could show that you had good grounds to believe tht they were telling the truth then you might be off the negligence 'hook' but if they said they weren't vaccinated and you still rostered them in to contact with vulnerable patients, then you would be very responsible indeed. That could end up with all your staff being unusable for their contracted functions, which would be an interesting position to be in as a manager.
Most of my staff were vaccinated on site so we know who’s had it and are requested to provide evidence of vaccination when they have been, if done elsewhere. So we know to a high degree of certainty who has and who hasn’t (relatively few in my case, less than the fingers of one hand).

No one has yet tested out the legality of making a contractual adjustment based on vaccination status. I’m sure someone may do in due course, if it’s introduced anywhere and we’ll all see whether it’s lawful or not. No provider of any scale, and I include the NHS in this, is genuinely proposing to do it currently so I presume we’ve all had much the same legal advice. Barchester have said they’re looking into it but it has the potential to be discriminatory so I’d be very surprised if it’s introduced by them and I suspect it’s more ‘persuasion’ to staff at this point.

This is going to be a much bigger issue within the NHS I suspect.
 
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The Govt has ruled out 24hr vaccine centres but hold on, white privilege????

Sent from my SM-N976B using Tapatalk
There’s very little demand for 24hr vaccine centres from the general population and they effectively cut your available staff to vaccinate during the day.

However I can’t really see a problem for some specific groups to be vaccinated at night if it’s time limited and improves uptake amongst a demographic where that’s low already.
 
Its all about the miscalled "Religion of Peace" innit, I mean the Labour party MP's & certain major city Mayors would go ballistic if our Gov't didn't continue to pander to the increasingly demanding hordes who infest many of our cities and keep them in post with their corrupt voting practices!!

On the other less polarised hand - the more vaccinated the better
Its a common problem that a number of Muslims stop taking medication during Ramadan (at least in daylight hours) this causes an issue for diabetics / heart problems and blood pressure types and then this fills up A and E with emergencies

Seems rather sensible to me that in order to keep momentum going on vaccinations we switch to night shift in Muslim areas.

I wont be getting outraged by this reasonable bit of pandering to a religion
 
On the other less polarised hand - the more vaccinated the better
Its a common problem that a number of Muslims stop taking medication during Ramadan (at least in daylight hours) this causes an issue for diabetics / heart problems and blood pressure types and then this fills up A and E with emergencies

Seems rather sensible to me that in order to keep momentum going on vaccinations we switch to night shift in Muslim areas.

I wont be getting outraged by this reasonable bit of pandering to a religion
My bold. Gen question.
If one observing Ramadan's rules can't take medication in daylight hours but then may end up in A and E. They would then be taking medicine during daylight hours.
Is there no dispensation for people who rely on daylight medication for their very health? :cool:
 
No realtive anywhere in any care setting has attempted to do that and to repeat there isn’t a legal mechanism to constructively dismiss someone for not doing something that they have a legal choice to do or not in the way you suggest.

No one, not the NHS or any care provider is currently genuinely proposing to do what you suggest, given that current refusal rates are roughly 25% or so across the board in health and social care.

Makes the vaccine a bit pointless then, no? Quite a bit of hysteria directed at one or two on here choosing not to have it, while looking determinedly away from those working in places with a lot of exposure to the thing who also choose to swerve the jab.
 
My bold. Gen question.
If one observing Ramadan's rules can't take medication in daylight hours but then may end up in A and E. They would then be taking medicine during daylight hours.
Is there no dispensation for people who rely on daylight medication for their very health? :cool:
There is - the problem is getting that through some skulls (ditto those who need to eat to control blood sugar etc)

Likewise pregnant women do not have to fast and travellers* can drink water .

Gulf helicopters had an instruction that Pilots would drink during the day - and as i recall a notice about eating if they felt they should ( it may even have been a you will eat if on duty - make it up later)

For those unable to fast - travel job medical - they can make it up later at an appropriate time.

My knowlede is very superficial you now know as much as me


*That may extend further ie all manual workers who are obliged to work during the period - but im not sure
 
However I can’t really see a problem for some specific groups to be vaccinated at night if it’s time limited and improves uptake amongst a demographic where that’s low already.

It will lead to them always demanding their own special times for anything that they want.
I doubt many of the demographic who aren't getting the vaccine will change their mind if its offered at night.
 
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anglo

LE
It will leaf to them always demanding their own special times for anything that they want.
I doubt many of the demographic who aren't getting the vaccine will change their mind if its offered at night.
Allah will protect them from COVID-19, if they die, it's just put down to Allah’s will,
 

Joker62

ADC
Book Reviewer
There’s very little demand for 24hr vaccine centres from the general population and they effectively cut your available staff to vaccinate during the day.

However I can’t really see a problem for some specific groups to be vaccinated at night if it’s time limited and improves uptake amongst a demographic where that’s low already.
Why would they need a specific night time jab thouigh, does not eating during the day mean that the vaccine won't be effective? They haven't open night centres for those working permanent nightshifts, have they?
 

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