Covid disinformation in the BAME community

There are some very small care home providers who are refusing to facilitate vaccinations for staff for religious reasons. They’re clearly idiots, and I suspect that the CQC/HIS/HIW will be looking at those very closely.
As I think I posted before, there were in December 400 CHs out of c 17,500 in England that do not undertake any virus testing on religious or ethical grounds. CQC were looking at regulations requiring mandatory testing.
 
That’ll likely just result in constructive dismissal tribunals, though I have to say that domestic staff in care homes have a lot of contact with residents.
Barchester have threatened to do this, it’ll be interesting to see how legal it’s deemed to be.
Barchester also has one of the lowest rates of Covid-19 related deaths across the industry and lowest sample void rate, and also test staff on weekends (which very few ASC facilities bother to do, as it requires the presence of 'management' to enter information on the DHSC portal).
 

ancienturion

LE
Book Reviewer
If I am injected with the vaccine apparently after a certain time I am less likely to die of Covid. I could still catch it or be a carrier without realising and pass it on to others. Hence why does it matter whether I have a certificate or not?
Surely if I have been injected with the vaccine it is only others to worry about because they might catch it and die if they have not also had the vaccine.
It seems this is all going back to the "herd" attitude.
 
Sighs... it requires the repeal of two acts, one of which is very recent. It won’t happen.

To mix metaphors it would be the thin end of a very slippery wedge. I don’t want any vaccinations to be compulsory.
I’m sure you have more experience of this than I do, but I’m not so sure. I agree that it is highly unlikely that any UK Government is going to pass a law making vaccinations compulsory, but I think it a whole lot less certain that they won’t pass a law allowing a lack of a vaccination to be an allowable exception under unfair dismissal law in certain circumstances.
 
Well some of the anti vaxer crowd will hopefully de select themselves from the work / gene pool with a little bit of natural selection a slow process though.
 
Interesting.

It appears that some company by the name of Pimlico Plumbers just called @stacker1 a liar.

Hmmmm

Employment lawyers said the plan carried risks for the business.

However, employment lawyers said this vaccination policy could be risky.

Legally, companies cannot force employees to take a vaccine, said Thrive Law managing director Jodie Hill.
"They can't jab a vaccine in your arm," she said.
People who refuse vaccination and are dismissed may have grounds to make a legal claim, she said.





Still, they have got a massive amount of publicity for free. And I assume you will take the word of a lawyer over that of a plumber?
 

Fang_Farrier

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
I’m sure you have more experience of this than I do, but I’m not so sure. I agree that it is highly unlikely that any UK Government is going to pass a law making vaccinations compulsory, but I think it a whole lot less certain that they won’t pass a law allowing a lack of a vaccination to be an allowable exception under unfair dismissal law in certain circumstances.

Couple of key paragraphs from the above
"All new healthcare workers need to have standard health clearance before they have clinical contact with patients, ie be free from TB disease, with immunisation where appropriate, and to be offered immunisation against hepatitis B."
"For new healthcare workers whose post or training requires performance of EPPs, it is suggested that appointment or admission to training should be conditional on satisfactory completion of standard and additional health clearance checks, ie that they are free from infection with hepatitis B, hepatitis C and HIV, as well as TB. It is therefore recommended that these checks be carried out early in the appointments/admissions process."
 

Truxx

LE
Sighs... it requires the repeal of two acts, one of which is very recent. It won’t happen.

To mix metaphors it would be the thin end of a very slippery wedge. I don’t want any vaccinations to be compulsory.
There is a difference between making vaccination compulsory and not employing unvaccinated staff. See Pimlico Plumbers for details.
 

Truxx

LE
Interesting.

It appears that some company by the name of Pimlico Plumbers just called @stacker1 a liar.
Legal perspective here:

If an employer imposes a condition of vaccination for continued employment or access to work, what challenge can it expect? Clearly, if dismissal results, unfair dismissal claims may be expected.

If staff come into contact with members of the public, clients or colleagues in the course of their duties, then an unreasonable refusal may be characterised as either “some other substantial reason for dismissal”, or as an issue of conduct or capability.

As with every dismissal, a fair process must be followed and part of that will involve considering the employee’s reasons for refusal and whether there are alternatives to dismissal. Providing employees with access to good sources of advice about vaccine risk and benefit are likely to be part of this process.

Given that tribunals should not substitute their own judgment for that of the employer, then, provided the employer has carried out a careful weighing up of the concerns of the employee against the needs of the business, its customers and employees, it may be possible for the employer to successfully defend a dismissal or refusal to provide work in these circumstances.

Relevant factors include the needs of those with whom the individual can be expected to come into contact. For example, refusal of vaccine by employees working with those who are medically vulnerable is likely to cause significant concern to an employer, given that in any population there will always be those who, for medical or allergy reasons, are unable to have the vaccine and must therefore rely on measures taken by other people.

Source: Can staff be forced to have a Covid vaccination?
 
Hmmmm

Employment lawyers said the plan carried risks for the business.

However, employment lawyers said this vaccination policy could be risky.

Legally, companies cannot force employees to take a vaccine, said Thrive Law managing director Jodie Hill.
"They can't jab a vaccine in your arm," she said.
People who refuse vaccination and are dismissed may have grounds to make a legal claim, she said.





Still, they have got a massive amount of publicity for free. And I assume you will take the word of a lawyer over that of a plumber?

If you're a plumber on a 0-hour contract for PP, how long are you going to wait for the phone to ring before the penny drops?
 
If you're a plumber on a 0-hour contract for PP, how long are you going to wait for the phone to ring before the penny drops?

Which isnt the same thing as forcing your current employees to get a jab is it?
 
Which isnt the same thing as forcing your current employees to get a jab is it?

Oh, of course it isn't.

No-one would only pass jobs to vaccinated staff and leave the anti-vaxxers sitting at home filling in benefit claim forms.

Why, that would be immoral, unconstitutional and illegal.
 
Oh, of course it isn't.

No-one would only pass jobs to vaccinated staff and leave the anti-vaxxers sitting at home filling in benefit claim forms.

Why, that would be immoral, unconstitutional and illegal.

Correct, if they are regular staff not on zero hours contract, (Like more than 90% of the country) they wont be doing it.

Also those giving it billy big bollocks about forcing zero hour staff to do something can only do so if they are confident they have a steady supply of workers, otherwise they wont give a **** about the covid jab.
 
Correct, if they are regular staff not on zero hours contract, (Like more than 90% of the country) they wont be doing it.

Also those giving it billy big bollocks about forcing zero hour staff to do something can only do so if they are confident they have a steady supply of workers, otherwise they wont give a **** about the covid jab.

Dead right.

This is the New Gold Rush(tm) for plumbers. Tell your employer to fck off if he tries it on, you can almost write your own pay cheque these days.

Where there's muck, there's brass, right?
 
Dead right.

This is the New Gold Rush(tm) for plumbers. Tell your employer to fck off if he tries it on, you can almost write your own pay cheque these days.

Where there's muck, there's brass, right?

You mean supply and demand? Lets see how it goes when the companies cant get the staff.
 
That's the ticket.

Suckle at the benefits teat during these boom times.

Money for everyone!

Huzzah!

Or get a job elsewhere unblocking toilets and all the other essential plumbing that will still need doing regardless of the economy.
 
That’ll likely just result in constructive dismissal tribunals, though I have to say that domestic staff in care homes have a lot of contact with residents.
Barchester have threatened to do this, it’ll be interesting to see how legal it’s deemed to be.

If their position is redundant because they can't work with the vulnerable, what other options do the care homes have?
 

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