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Covid 19 - how long will the public tolerate a lockdown?

That just about encapsulates the problem with the two-dimensional view of politics that exists generally and particularly in many on this site.

The political and professional elitism that exists in this country is not the exclusive province of the political left, nor of the right, nor the centre. In this respect they are indistinguishable, in spite of their individual politics. It's a power and entitlement thing that transcends political standpoints.
First off I think you are right with regard to two-dimensional politics and the way it's now amplified through social media. I've used the word "lefties" as a catch all without expanding on what I meant by the term.

That's my fault.

I came across a comment on the Guido Fawkes website (don't shoot the messenger or the source) which I thought was a good comment. I copied it to 'notepad' but forgot to save it, so went back through the articles to find that particular comment and the link to the piece I'd previously read having read your comment.

Here's the original comment I read:

There's an argument that the Middle Class is really two middle classes - the Yeomanry and the Clerisy
(The Two Middle Classes - Quillette ):

"First there is the yeomanry or the traditional middle class, which consists of small business owners, minor landowners, craftspeople, and artisans, or what we would define historically as the bourgeoisie, or the old French Third Estate, deeply embedded in the private economy. The other middle class, now in ascendency, is the clerisy, a group that makes its living largely in quasi-public institutions, notably universities, media, the non-profit world, and the upper bureaucracy."

If you squint a bit you can portray much of modern politics and life as a struggle between the Yeomanry and the Clerisy. The debate about neo-liberalism/globalism and the local, the debate about Big Government/Small Government all rest on this difference. It's 'Middle Class' civil war.

Labour are now run by and represent the Clerisy. The Conservatives are now run by the Clerisy too, but pay at least some attention to the Yeomanry. The Working Class don't figure in the debate.


I think it's well worth the brief time to read and I'm sure it will ring true to many a reader. Whilst I agree with your first point regarding two-dimensional politics and how social media polarises such, often with catch-all phrases such as 'lefties', I think the piece quoted nails it with regard to that term as I see it.
 
Can't see the UK being this organised sadly.

 
Our esteemed Minister of Health in Spain has just announced the areas that can move forward to what is called phase 1 of lockdown.
Seems like only half of Spain will move forward and the other half will stay in complete lockdown for another week at least. Bit confusing as they have split each region into provinces and each province into health department areas. I;m in one area that can go to phase 1 and have restrictions on movement lifted but other health departments around me stay in restricted movement and can only go in their own towns. So I can drive with my missus from Monday but only to areas in my health department and not those who didn't advance. Plus shopping malls have to stay closed and only stores with under 400 sq m in size can open provided only 30% capacity.
Had to download a map showing which areas my health department covers.

God knows how they are going to police it.
 
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TamH70

MIA
Out on my combined exercise session/shopping trip out to the Morrisons branch in Paisley that hasn't killed people in an E-Coli outbreak (remember those, they were fun), there was a noticeable increase in traffic levels, of all sorts. The lockdown is seemingly more and more honoured in its breach rather than in its observance.
 
Out on my combined exercise session/shopping trip out to the Morrisons branch in Paisley that hasn't killed people in an E-Coli outbreak (remember those, they were fun), there was a noticeable increase in traffic levels, of all sorts. The lockdown is seemingly more and more honoured in its breach rather than in its observance.
Seeing more and more traffic in my town also and the police foot patrols were much in evidence questioning people and fining them if they didnt have a good reason to be out
 

NemoIII

War Hero
Seeing more and more traffic in my town also and the police foot patrols were much in evidence questioning people and fining them if they didnt have a good reason to be out

I drive across 2 countries and 3 counties to work. Not once have the police stopped to ask what I'm upto.

A few weeks ago I hit a deer causing a bit of damage to my car, called to police to get them to remove the deer from a busy dual carriage way. Police arrive ask how much further I have to go (Bareing in mine I'm over 100 miles from home at this point, and not even in the same country) and tell me to crack on.
 

Danatanian

Old-Salt
A lot of people are just ignoring the lock down, and where I live it seems to be the elderly and the most at risk doing it.

Packs of pensioners bimbling down the middle of the road because they survived the war you know and no one tells them what to do.

My neighbour was passing the back garden the the other day and stopped for a chat. He was going on about how there were more people about and the roads were busier and how people need to obey the lock down. This is a guy whose girlfriend is a Diabetic who was told to self isolate for 12 weeks but she goes out and about just about every day. Both sets of grandparents visit regularly to see their grandson who has learning difficulties. Her friends regularly pop round in their chav mobile with the broken exhaust. And he goes to the local shop, according to himself, every day .. not for himself of course but for his hyperactive kid's daily bottle of full fat Coke which he needs to keep him quiet. Starting to see why the kid circles the garden like a blur constantly shouting and screaming.

But its other people breaking the rules of course.

Because my neighbour's attitude, pretty common among large numbers of people it seems, is that everyone else has to obey the rules to keep his family safe .. while they do what they want.
 
Last weekend the neighbours to the back of my garden were having a BBQ with several other adults and teenagers round who I know don't live there, then yesterday my other neighbours to the right were having a tea party in their back garden with friends round, all sat round a little table chatting away, and I keep seeing their knobhead son coming and going regularly as well.
It's really starting to get my back up as I haven't seen any friends or family throughout the whole thing, but I'm not about to start either. "Well they're doing it" is no excuse.
 

Bob65

War Hero
Last weekend the neighbours to the back of my garden were having a BBQ with several other adults and teenagers round who I know don't live there, then yesterday my other neighbours to the right were having a tea party in their back garden with friends round, all sat round a little table chatting away, and I keep seeing their knobhead son coming and going regularly as well.
It's really starting to get my back up as I haven't seen any friends or family throughout the whole thing, but I'm not about to start either. "Well they're doing it" is no excuse.

Same here. The people on my street most militant about "clap for our carers" are the same people who are letting all their kids play together and holding "lockdown parties" on the green with adults standing no more than arm's length apart.

As an aside, is banging saucepans on your doorstep every Thursday just a part of British national life now? Like mediaeval villagers trying to ward off evil spirits?
 
A lot of people are just ignoring the lock down, and where I live it seems to be the elderly and the most at risk doing it.

Packs of pensioners bimbling down the middle of the road because they survived the war you know and no one tells them what to do.

My neighbour was passing the back garden the the other day and stopped for a chat. He was going on about how there were more people about and the roads were busier and how people need to obey the lock down. This is a guy whose girlfriend is a Diabetic who was told to self isolate for 12 weeks but she goes out and about just about every day. Both sets of grandparents visit regularly to see their grandson who has learning difficulties. Her friends regularly pop round in their chav mobile with the broken exhaust. And he goes to the local shop, according to himself, every day .. not for himself of course but for his hyperactive kid's daily bottle of full fat Coke which he needs to keep him quiet. Starting to see why the kid circles the garden like a blur constantly shouting and screaming.

But its other people breaking the rules of course.

Because my neighbour's attitude, pretty common among large numbers of people it seems, is that everyone else has to obey the rules to keep his family safe .. while they do what they want.

Maybe your neighbour is a government adviser or junior health minister so has an excuse?
 

Danatanian

Old-Salt
Maybe your neighbour is a government adviser or junior health minister so has an excuse?

He's got the intelligence of a rock, the charisma of a potato, is never wrong about anything and anything you have done in life he has done it better, faster and more often .. he is well qualified.

Probably over qualified come to think of it.
 

magumba

Old-Salt
Last weekend the neighbours to the back of my garden were having a BBQ with several other adults and teenagers round who I know don't live there, then yesterday my other neighbours to the right were having a tea party in their back garden with friends round, all sat round a little table chatting away, and I keep seeing their knobhead son coming and going regularly as well.
It's really starting to get my back up as I haven't seen any friends or family throughout the whole thing, but I'm not about to start either. "Well they're doing it" is no excuse.
Isn't there a grassline or some online reporting structure so you can report them ?...just following orders was no excuse either
 

magumba

Old-Salt
He's got the intelligence of a rock, the charisma of a potato, is never wrong about anything and anything you have done in life he has done it better, faster and more often .. he is well qualified.

Probably over qualified come to think of it.
If you've been to Tenerife he's been to twentyerife type of thing ?
 
Isn't there a grassline or some online reporting structure so you can report them ?...just following orders was no excuse either

To be fair we're due a little payback, we've lived in this house for just over two years and in the first week the tea party twats reported us for noise despite us never having the TV on loud. Even now they start thumping on the wall when we close the wardrobe doors upstairs or watch TV on an evening (despite often having screaming rows or thudding about themselves). The landlord said they were weird when we moved in. If they have another little party while lockdown measures are still in place they may get a little visit...
 

magumba

Old-Salt
First off I think you are right with regard to two-dimensional politics and the way it's now amplified through social media. I've used the word "lefties" as a catch all without expanding on what I meant by the term.

That's my fault.

I came across a comment on the Guido Fawkes website (don't shoot the messenger or the source) which I thought was a good comment. I copied it to 'notepad' but forgot to save it, so went back through the articles to find that particular comment and the link to the piece I'd previously read having read your comment.

Here's the original comment I read:




I think it's well worth the brief time to read and I'm sure it will ring true to many a reader. Whilst I agree with your first point regarding two-dimensional politics and how social media polarises such, often with catch-all phrases such as 'lefties', I think the piece quoted nails it with regard to that term as I see it.
the third class

 

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