Discussion in 'The Intelligence Cell' started by oldbloke, Mar 4, 2007.

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  1. I've read the nonces thread and the have a go thread and the consensus appears to be one of don't do this or that as you will end up inside.

    Tony Martin (right wing nutter) apart, do courts especially ones with juries really convict people for defending themselves or having a go? I often read about people being arrested for grabbing some gobby kid and done for assault etc but does it ever get to court?

    I suppose a lot are dealt with by magistrates who are supposed to follow the letter of the law but if it was me I would elect for trial by jury and depending on the circumstance would have a lot of hope of being found not guilty. I'm sure if I was on the jury there is no way I would find someone guilty for defending themselves or stepping in to help someone in trouble.

    Ahh but it's the law I hear you cry (well maybe the odd tree hugger) but I would hope commonsense would prevail. Commonsense in Britain! Did I really say that?
  2. Aaaaaaah crap I though you were offering furniture discounts.
  3. No way?


    Can I enquire out of interest and for the sake of argument if you or anyone in your family has ever been accused of any crime, no matter how trivial?.
  4. Oldbloke, you are making the assumption that a jury would be made up of decent, ordinary people, similarly minded as to yourself. In today's Britain that is one heck of an assumption to make, especially when a majority verdict is all that is required in most cases!
  5. Tony Martin was terrorised for years by repeat burglaries, and it got to the stage where he had moved all his valuable upstairs in the house, and barricaded the staircase.

    Two chavs then burgled him, and he shot one of them. The poor bloke was driven to the brink by these people.

    Right Wing? Nutter? or ordinary bloke?
  6. Part of the problem is that the courts are for the law, not for justice.

    Gone are the days when judges could apply common sense and juries worked on "reasonable doubt" rather than "absolutely impossible."

    Also, it seems, gone are the days when a criminal could expect to receive an appropriate sentence. In the efforts to prevent overcrowding in prisons, the victims must be prepared to suffer yet again.
  7. I agree with the sentiments.

    Bear in mind that you can no longer set broken glass on your garden wall in case somebody gets injured climbing over it. If you use barbed wire, you have to install a warning notice - yet you're still liable to a charge of assault if a burglar injures himself on it. (The argument is that you're only allowed to use reasonable force to protect yourself, not to prevent the naughty person getting away).
  8. Near where I live, a bloke got up in the middle of the night to be confronted by a junkie burglar armed with a carving knife. Bloke hit the junkie once with a snooker cue to disarm him and detained him till the police arrived.

    When the police arrived, the junkie made an immediate complaint of assault. Guess who was taken away in handcuffs?

    Personally, I always keep a pound of heroin and a tranquilizer dart gun handy. Any burglars who choose to visit get it in the arrse (and not in a good way). Within seconds they've overdosed and I can drag the corpse into the garden before dialling 999 to report yet another unfortunate soul who has succumbed to the horrors of drug addiction.
  9. There are loads of stories that happened to 'a mate of mine' when he tackled a (insert villain of your choice here) and got nicked. (Those that work in London will know that cab drivers are a particularly good source of these)

    It's difficult and unfair to comment on individual cases without being in possession of all the facts.

    Burglar with knife in your house, you produce pool cue and negate the immediate threat, I cannot see that getting home at court. However, there probably is evidence of an assault and if burglar makes an allegation, it MAY be appropriate that you are arrested. You will go to the police station and one of the first things offered to you is a solicitor (free of charge). Answer YES to that question.

    It may be such that your actions are deemed to be beyond reasonable force (i.e you do the Mexican hat dance on him after you've lamped him with the cue and taken the knife off him. There is no further threat, but you've got the raging) In this case the CPS would review all the evidence and advise on a charge. This would be post interview etc.

    Ancient Mariner, did your mate get charged ? I imagine not, furthermore, ask what his treatment was like at the station. I guarantee he has no complaints, and he was treated differently to the burglar. Handcuffs, yes he's getting cuffed, he's an unknown risk. (Speak to the widow of the copper transporting a prisoner from Catterick garrison to Darlington last Christmas)

    Imagine if druggie burglar had a thin skull, Hep A and B, HIV and numerous ulcers. He dies 2 weeks later, and his family (who wouldn't go anywhere near him previously) now employ a firm of ambulance chaser solicitors to bring a private prosecution for manslaughter. He was a lively cheeky chappy, although no angel, in the grip of drug addiction, not his fault. Big nasty ex services type beats him to death. Discuss.

    Juries, don't get me started on juries.

    In my time in the job, I have never seen someone prosecuted this sort of action. I have seen a number arrested though.
  10. Regardless of being found guilty, why would I want to risk being arrested, DNA'd, time in cells, stress, travelling and time of a court case etc. I'm very sorry about this but if the powers that be have decided that I'm a sheep then they can deal with the sh!t and I'll watch.
  11. It does bring up the interesting question of: if the bad guys don't expect to be caught, why should anyone else?

    Okay, so it's an occupational hazard for some of them, BUT it seems to me that poor detection rates work both ways. Any vigilante-type only risks imprisonment if they hang around waiting for the Bizzies to show up.

    As for the householder taking on trespassers , they should make sure they have an old, rusty (but forensically clean) kitchen knife to hand to add a little spice to the crime-scene. Perverting the course of justice? Perverting the course of the law, perhaps...

    I'm becoming increasingly keen on the idea of taking the law into my own hands; it isn't safe in the hands it's in just now.
  12. Trial by jury? Cobblers. Friday afternoon in the jury room, jurers looking at their watches, 'Guilty right? I'm going out tonight and I want to avoid the traffic'