Courts Martial information please

#1
Am I able to get any/all the records of my Courts Martial ? I'm civvie now and the Courts Martial was in the late 80's.
 
#2
Not a huge expert; but I reckon that once the Freedom of Information Act (FOI) becomes law in Jan 05 you will be able to use it to release your records (it is retrospective and the Forces are not exempt its provisions).
 
#3
armourer said:
Am I able to get any/all the records of my Courts Martial ? I'm civvie now and the Courts Martial was in the late 80's.
Why on earth would you wish to dig up that part of your history?

Bestiality was an offence then and it is now :D

Besides, didn't the alsation later withdraw its complaint?
 
#4
They would need a fleet of JCBs to transport all your Court Martial transcripts
 
#6
Baddass said:
Besides, didn't the alsation later withdraw its complaint?
Well yes but, it's the boy scout troop and the underwater goat with the aqualung that realy dropped me in it.....
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Cheers Percy, i'll wait till then I think.
 
#7
armourer said:
Am I able to get any/all the records of my Courts Martial ? I'm civvie now and the Courts Martial was in the late 80's.
Courts Martial law reports are public records, which as such fall within the provisions of the Freedom of Information Act 2000 s.67, an earlier post refers to January but according to Statutory instrument 2001/3500, Article 8, Schedule 2, it should come into effect on 30 November 2005.

So yes you can get them from the Public Records Office either in January if the earlier information is correct or 30 Nov 05 in any event.
 
#8
Thanks for that.
 
#9
Oh, hey. And if you do it again, dont forget to give us a shout. Though be prepared to take a number. I am bracketed by a shed-load of folks just back from the Dusty Place, they might need more help than you and yer naughties...

Honestly, riding without lights. At your age....

I always say, get 'em to buy fags. And if the bar guy reckons they're 16, Bob's your mum's best mate. :wink:
 
#12
At the risk of sounding like an FOI spotter.....
The FOI does come into force on 1 Jan 05. However, in an FOI book I have been issued with (honestly) which until now was keeping the door ajar it states that Court records are exempt from the Act. "This exemption applies only to information held by public bodies other than the courts and tribunals, which are not themselves public authorities under the Act. The exclusion of the courts and tribunals from the Act was deliberate so that the disclosure of information on law enforcement is still governed by these legal bodies" There's a load of other stuff saying what it covers, which includes "any document created by a court".

It states that this exemption is absolute, ie, can't be appealed against and is classed as such for 30 years. It refers to Sect 32 of the Act, which must be online somewhere I would guess. www.foi.gov.uk.

Sounds like one rule for 1 and another for the rest of us.
Sorry not the news you were after armourer.
 
#13
yellowbelly said:
At the risk of sounding like an FOI spotter.....
The FOI does come into force on 1 Jan 05. However, in an FOI book I have been issued with (honestly) which until now was keeping the door ajar it states that Court records are exempt from the Act. "This exemption applies only to information held by public bodies other than the courts and tribunals, which are not themselves public authorities under the Act. The exclusion of the courts and tribunals from the Act was deliberate so that the disclosure of information on law enforcement is still governed by these legal bodies" There's a load of other stuff saying what it covers, which includes "any document created by a court".

It states that this exemption is absolute, ie, can't be appealed against and is classed as such for 30 years. It refers to Sect 32 of the Act, which must be online somewhere I would guess. www.foi.gov.uk.

Sounds like one rule for 1 and another for the rest of us.
Sorry not the news you were after armourer.

Within the Act, “court” means any tribunal or body exercising the judicial power of the State and is provided for by s.32 as you point out.

Furthermore under the test in Foster v British Gas, a courts martial would fit both the criteria of a public authority under the act and an emanation of the state and indeed would be subject to the authority of this statute for Armourer's purposes of obtaining his courts-martial records providing that the subject documents were not held by the court for the purposes of proceedings in a particular cause, matter, inquiry or arbitration.

In other words so long as the records are there, and that they are not beng used for any lawful purpose then Armourer could indeed avail himself of the FOIA 2000 s.32 provisions and obtain them.

Some of the FOIA 2000 is aready in force, most of it does indeed come into force on 1 Jan 05, however s.32 which is the relavent section in this matter is not subject to any order in council or statutory instrument that I can find - so it does in fact come into force on 30 Nov 05 under the terms of the commencement provisions in s.87 FOIA 2000.

If there is such a provision bringing it into force by this time then would someone please post the link.

Hope this helps - probably not!
 
#14
It might be worth ringing APC Glasgow and ask for the Disclosures section - they should be able to provide you with the information you require, assuming it is held on your P File up there.

Don't know what the civvie number is, but ask the operator for Glasgow Mil ext 3600.
 
#16
Thanks again, I'll see what happens :!: I'll probably get re arrested as they forgot to do me for something :wink:
 
#17
armourer said:
Thanks again, I'll see what happens :!: I'll probably get re arrested as they forgot to do me for something :wink:
I know - a very late entry - however here goes ...
The 'Court' i.e. here the Office of the Judge Advocate General will hold papers including any transcripts for 6 years after which the bulk is simply shredded (unless it happens to be a particularly noteworthy case or is 1 which may give rise to further litigation). Any court proceedings are likely to have been taped at that time anyway. In the 80's it was the ALS who prosecuted (i.e. before the creation of the APA) and it is likely that they too have destroyed the abstract and any other documents.
It depends what you're after - If simple records then Glasgow seems best or the Regiment itself may have an entry in their Discipline book (if they kept 1) - if anything else suggest you contact the Office of the JAG and see if they can give any suggestions.
 

Cutaway

LE
Kit Reviewer
#18
Here's a question, probably fuelled more by beer than any semblance of logic, on the subject of Spent Convictions.

Does this only count for criminal convictions or also for transgressions of Military Law ?

If it covers the latter is any Regimental Entry deleted from the P File ?

I'm probably talking bollocks at this time of night so please put me right.
 
#19
Cutaway said:
Does this only count for criminal convictions or also for transgressions of Military Law ?
Company entries are deleted and destroyed 2 years after the last entry.

If it covers the latter is any Regimental Entry deleted from the P File ?
Regimental entries are not deleted but after 5 years are deemed as spent and annotated as such on your Conduct sheet.
 

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