Court Martial

#1
How long does the process take, from start to finish? I've got less than two months to run and I'm wondering what I can get away with. I'm presuming that if I discharge before the court convenes and it's not a civil crime, I'll get away scot free.

I'm not planning the overthrow of the military system or embarrassment of superiors, just a last-minute bit of impish behaviour that'll mark my passing. But it will be disobeying Part 1s. Wilfully. And obtaining permission would detract from the entertainment value. I'm only asking in case my CO doesn't see it from my point of view.
 
#2
You cannot discharge with outstanding discipline. Therefore you could, depending on the seriousness of your disciplinary breach and the CO's sense of humour, be retained until the summary dealing or CM process has been completed and any award served.

uqfegd

pp
 
#3
You cannot discharge with outstanding discipline. Therefore you could, depending on the seriousness of your disciplinary breach and the CO's sense of humour, be retained until the summary dealing or CM process has been completed and any award served.
The TA's different, though. I don't have a contract with a specified end date. Only a use-by date. Come my 55th birthday, I'm not allowed to be in the Army.

Had I been under sentence, that could change, but under charge??
 
#4
The TA's different, though. I don't have a contract with a specified end date. Only a use-by date. Come my 55th birthday, I'm not allowed to be in the Army.

Had I been under sentence, that could change, but under charge??
I think you'd have to actually turn up to a TA evening/weekend to get charged - they won't come and get you.

On a side note; does anyone know if there is a cut off between an incident occurring and charges being raised? It's been five months now and one of my Crafties has had enough of waiting to find out.
 

Legs

ADC
Book Reviewer
#5
The time from reporting the incident to Charge depends on the investigation. I know of a case the RMP investigated that took the best part of 18 months before the charge was made and the CM was instigated. This was a complex Child Porn case though.

You can still be liable for Service Discipline for 6 months post discharge though.
 
#7
The time from reporting the incident to Charge depends on the investigation. I know of a case the RMP investigated that took the best part of 18 months before the charge was made and the CM was instigated. This was a complex Child Porn case though.

You can still be liable for Service Discipline for 6 months post discharge though.
Bugger - so he could be waiting a while then. He's not been given any info since the incident. (It's nothing serious; he only shot his boss!) :)
 
#8
The European Convention for the Protection of Fundamental Rights and Freedoms states "... everyone is entitled to a fair and public hearing within a reasonable time ...". Exactly what constitutes a "reasonable time" is a matter of debate, but in Scotland, there are some other factors, including rules that trials have to start either within 12 months of committal, or 110 days for someone remanded into custody. It is not that unusual for defendants to be let off due to these rules.
 
#9
Just to clarify, that means that for the six months following your discharge, even though you are a civvy, the AFA etc still applies. They still have the power to discipline you after that, but only for offences committed before or during that six month window.
I might not be correctly interpreting what you say. Offences committed DURING that six month window following discharge?

My reading of the MSL (JSP 830) Chapter 3 is that you cannot (in most cases) be charged with a service offence, committed while you were still a member, after the elapse of six months commencing with the date of discharge. During that six months you are no longer a member and are not capable of committing a service offence (apparently with some exceptions) during that period.

This is not legal advice!

I am not commenting on the OP's question.
 
#10
I might not be correctly interpreting what you say. Offences committed DURING that six month window following discharge?

My reading of the MSL (JSP 830) Chapter 3 is that you cannot (in most cases) be charged with a service offence, committed while you were still a member, after the elapse of six months commencing with the date of discharge. During that six months you are no longer a member and are not capable of committing a service offence (apparently with some exceptions) during that period.

This is not legal advice!

I am not commenting on the OP's question.
Good question. I might actually be wrong, as I'm rather foolishly going off my memory. I suspect that you are completely correct.
 

Legs

ADC
Book Reviewer
#11
I might not be correctly interpreting what you say. Offences committed DURING that six month window following discharge?

My reading of the MSL (JSP 830) Chapter 3 is that you cannot (in most cases) be charged with a service offence, committed while you were still a member, after the elapse of six months commencing with the date of discharge. During that six months you are no longer a member and are not capable of committing a service offence (apparently with some exceptions) during that period.

This is not legal advice!

I am not commenting on the OP's question.
Good question. I might actually be wrong, as I'm rather foolishly going off my memory. I suspect that you are completely correct.
He is.
 
#13
As someone else has said, they may retain you in service until outstanding disciplinary matters have been resolved.

Once you are out they have 6 months to serve the charge papers on you. They can extend this with permission from the Attorney General, but this process is very rare and would not be used for some pissy little offence.

Reference time-limits for charge, it depends on the offence. Some have a 6 month limit (i.e. 6 months from the date the service police first became aware of the allegation). There are no time limits for most of the serious offences.

I have known the investigation phase of more serious cases last for years, particularly when people have to have their computers analysed.

The only time a court is likely to accept delay as a good reason to discontinue proceedings is if there has been serious prejudice to the defence case as a result.

As much fun as it may be, don't bother committing some service offence for shits and giggles. You may end up the subject of an RMP investigation, with all the hassle that goes with it.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#14
Fuckem, do what the hell you want, its only TA after all, whats the worst they can do outside of camp is ask for their kit back early. If offence is committed during camp they usually discharge/release you on final day of camp anyway!
 
#15
As someone else has said, they may retain you in service until outstanding disciplinary matters have been resolved.

Once you are out they have 6 months to serve the charge papers on you. They can extend this with permission from the Attorney General, but this process is very rare and would not be used for some pissy little offence.

Reference time-limits for charge, it depends on the offence. Some have a 6 month limit (i.e. 6 months from the date the service police first became aware of the allegation). There are no time limits for most of the serious offences.

I have known the investigation phase of more serious cases last for years, particularly when people have to have their computers analysed.

The only time a court is likely to accept delay as a good reason to discontinue proceedings is if there has been serious prejudice to the defence case as a result.

As much fun as it may be, don't bother committing some service offence for shits and giggles. You may end up the subject of an RMP investigation, with all the hassle that goes with it.
Sod all this legal stuff. I want to know what he wants to get up to.

Bearing in mind he's a Sapper, this had better be good. I will require photos and if anyone asks, I was there with him and have seen most of the revolting things they get up to, nothing will shock me.

Come on Fella, spill the beans. (I'm going to get battered for that).
 
#16
I hear the tulips are starting to come out at Colchester early this year.
You may get to see them from your cell whilst shining everything you see!
Could come and visit you, but i don't like associating with the convicted, even minor ones!!
 
#17
I am only resurrecting this old thread to correct a few howlers, as it will turn up on a search and might mislead others.

I don't know where some contributors get their info from, but those who think that people cannot be discharged with disciplinary matters outstanding are way off track. I suspect they are fondly reminiscing of the days of yore and s13 of The Army Act 1955. When The Armed Forces Act 2006 replaced AA1955 that section became history.

They now discharge at their due date, but can be charged and brought to CM up to 6 months later. With the permission of the Attorney General this can be extended.
 
#19
I am only resurrecting this old thread to correct a few howlers, as it will turn up on a search and might mislead others.

I don't know where some contributors get their info from, but those who think that people cannot be discharged with disciplinary matters outstanding are way off track. I suspect they are fondly reminiscing of the days of yore and s13 of The Army Act 1955. When The Armed Forces Act 2006 replaced AA1955 that section became history.

They now discharge at their due date, but can be charged and brought to CM up to 6 months later. With the permission of the Attorney General this can be extended.
As @Legs said in Post 5.
 
#20
Not quite what was said in post #5 which was:
"... The time from reporting the incident to Charge depends on the investigation. I know of a case the RMP investigated that took the best part of 18 months before the charge was made and the CM was instigated. This was a complex Child Porn case though.

You can still be liable for Service Discipline for 6 months post discharge though..."

There are two types of Service Discipline, summary and CM, and they have different time periods. I was clarifying that it is 6 months for CM. You can also have a CM brought after this time, but only with the consent of the Attorney General and with relatively strict grounds (ie you will probably only see it for very serious offences).

A recent CM in Germany involved a number of individuals and one had the application successfully made to the AG to try him a few years after his discharge.

Like I said, only posted for clarification.
 

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