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Coup in America? The arming of the DHS paramilitary

I very much try to refrain from sweeping generalisations, and I am not condoning Deleted 20555's judgement based on the "rantings of a few Internet nutters," but isn't your statement above equally subjective? Whilst I trust that you personally know well-educated gun owners/lovers with above-average intelligence, this is undoubtedly a small sample and not indicative of all gun nuts (your words, not mine). I am sure there are plenty of people who can counter that they know gun owners who failed high school, and are tobacco-chewing, cheap beer-guzzling rednecks -- to stay within the realm of proper stereotypes. I currently work in academia in Maryland, and only one of my many colleagues (all of whom have at least a master's degree, whilst most have doctorates) owns a gun, ergo, the higher the education level the lower the level of gun ownership.

Well, a 2011 Gallup poll actually confirms that education, sex, race, and gun ownership are correlated, and it shows a statistically significant difference of 11 percentage points between gun owners without college (40%) and gun owners with college degrees (29%). Perhaps I'll have a quick look at the methodology later as this information is self-reported, but first I'll have a nice long walk with my dog and then a lovely pint of ale.

Self-Reported Gun Ownership in U.S. Is Highest Since 1993




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More than a small percentage of firearms owners in the US will routinely deny having any to someone who asks - especially over the 'phone.
I know most of my friends will act in that way; persec or paranoia, who's to tell?
 
If I may interject momentarily with my own observations of American gun ownership.

Oddbod, like myself, picks his shooting companions. My own are either serving or former military or police as I like their company and on a range they have some range discipline and can actually shoot reasonably well.

Oddbods companions, being professional men, can afford their hobby and both own and shoot as Ocbod has attested many times with his mention of attending three gun competitions in the company of his muckers.

I was bought up into the British mentality of gun ownership both as a civvy and as a working plod. I knew who would be granted a "ticket" and who would not be and wether their behaviour and conduct would allow their continued enjoyment of gun ownership. If I apply those same British principles in the US I actually think that possibly 20% - 30% of those that I have seen in possession of firearms would actually be allowed to own them.

Whilst my shooting companions are educated many of the people I see stroking guns in gun shops are so dimwitted I understand why velcro shoes were invented. I have seen and been spoken to, not by my initiation you understand, by people who would possibly marry their cousin - best portrayed on that film Deliverance.

There is also a group, a largeish group, who wear tinfoil hats and speak of "preparing for when the gubmint takes over". This group sweeps across the whole of septic society regardless of who is president, which party is power or wether it is christmas or halloween, it affects everyone from truck drivers to brain surgeons. In my opinion its an excuse to buy guns, lots of guns.

One thing I have noticed, regardless of the nice little statistically produced table shown above: When I lived in Florida, guns were fine, everyone had at least one gun, every granny attended a concealed carry licence class and tucked a .38 special in their handbag. The upshot was that in the town I lived in during the 2.5 years I was there the monthly average for burglaries was 9 a month, nine.

They have the same approach to guns in most of the southern and western states and even some of the central and north western states. ****, in Texas if you play road rage you may just get shot, fact. So everyone drives nicely.

Now up here where I live now, in the tri-state area - thats NY state, Pennsylvania and New Jersey - if you so much as mention the word "gun" you get looked at like you are some kind of psychopath. People who do shoot are a tad more discreet about it than elsewhere in the USA, California is the same apparently. In total contrast to down south I have met many, many people up here in the North east who have never touched, held, fired or even bloody well seen a privately owned firearm. In many places it is even against the law to shoot an airsoft pistol in the back garden.

Up here in the North East I too do not tell people I own guns or that I shoot.

I'm not a shrink, or a sociologist but I like people watching and the attitudes and approaches to guns a totally different in the more cosmopolitan areas of the US to the more far flung and rural areas. Look at north Philly, 10,000 murders in ten years, that does'nt happen down south or out west......'cos you never know if the biff you are going to mug has a gun, so you don't. Most of the trouble we used to hear about in Florida was from northerners that had recently come down and tried it on. A bit like a scouser doing a burglary in Hertfordshire and finding a homeowner with a Glock.

They are not all mad, not all bad, there are some sensible ones, clever ones even.
 
Really? Well for the temerity of disagreeing with some Americans on the internet that invading Iraq was a fabulous idea I was called amongst other things a racist, homsexual, Nazi storm trooper, I received weekly and sometimes daily personal messages that they hoped I died, they tried to find out where I worked so they could contact my employer, they tried to get my name, details and photograph, they called my partner a prostitute because she is Eurasian, they claimed my grandfather who was killed in Holland in 1994 serving with 30 Corp a coward and one of them claimed to be in London and wanted to "meet me in person" - Americans are all sweetness and light as long as you lick their arses and tell them how fabulous they are - they get a bit twitchy when you don't.
And I've run into as Many Brits who are complete assholes as well. I've been called a IRA supporter because my family came from Ireland (in the 1700's) even though we never gave a penny towards those murdering bastids, Been called a racist even though the KKK tried to burn a cross on Granpas land in 1919 after he came home from france with the AEF (Protestant Klan don't like Catholics, especially Irish catholics), been called a war criminal for serving in Iraq, been told those friends who died in the world trade center deserved it because of Some US Civilians supported the IRA. Unlike you I don't believe that makes all British people complete assholes because of the fuckwittery of a few.
 
I seem to recall reading the the NYPD is bigger and better armed than most national armies. 7th biggest IIRC.

Yes and No. Yes NYPD is large with some 35, 000 officers. But most carry nothing more than a Glock or Smith & Wesson, Sig as a duty weapon, sergeants having a shotgun in their RMP. the fancy stuff is with the tactical teams-ESU Hercules, etc.
 

arty762

Old-Salt
If I may interject momentarily with my own observations of American gun ownership.

Oddbod, like myself, picks his shooting companions. My own are either serving or former military or police as I like their company and on a range they have some range discipline and can actually shoot reasonably well.

Oddbods companions, being professional men, can afford their hobby and both own and shoot as Ocbod has attested many times with his mention of attending three gun competitions in the company of his muckers.

I was bought up into the British mentality of gun ownership both as a civvy and as a working plod. I knew who would be granted a "ticket" and who would not be and wether their behaviour and conduct would allow their continued enjoyment of gun ownership. If I apply those same British principles in the US I actually think that possibly 20% - 30% of those that I have seen in possession of firearms would actually be allowed to own them.

Whilst my shooting companions are educated many of the people I see stroking guns in gun shops are so dimwitted I understand why velcro shoes were invented. I have seen and been spoken to, not by my initiation you understand, by people who would possibly marry their cousin - best portrayed on that film Deliverance.

There is also a group, a largeish group, who wear tinfoil hats and speak of "preparing for when the gubmint takes over". This group sweeps across the whole of septic society regardless of who is president, which party is power or wether it is christmas or halloween, it affects everyone from truck drivers to brain surgeons. In my opinion its an excuse to buy guns, lots of guns.

One thing I have noticed, regardless of the nice little statistically produced table shown above: When I lived in Florida, guns were fine, everyone had at least one gun, every granny attended a concealed carry licence class and tucked a .38 special in their handbag. The upshot was that in the town I lived in during the 2.5 years I was there the monthly average for burglaries was 9 a month, nine.

They have the same approach to guns in most of the southern and western states and even some of the central and north western states. ****, in Texas if you play road rage you may just get shot, fact. So everyone drives nicely.

Now up here where I live now, in the tri-state area - thats NY state, Pennsylvania and New Jersey - if you so much as mention the word "gun" you get looked at like you are some kind of psychopath. People who do shoot are a tad more discreet about it than elsewhere in the USA, California is the same apparently. In total contrast to down south I have met many, many people up here in the North east who have never touched, held, fired or even bloody well seen a privately owned firearm. In many places it is even against the law to shoot an airsoft pistol in the back garden.

Up here in the North East I too do not tell people I own guns or that I shoot.

I'm not a shrink, or a sociologist but I like people watching and the attitudes and approaches to guns a totally different in the more cosmopolitan areas of the US to the more far flung and rural areas. Look at north Philly, 10,000 murders in ten years, that does'nt happen down south or out west......'cos you never know if the biff you are going to mug has a gun, so you don't. Most of the trouble we used to hear about in Florida was from northerners that had recently come down and tried it on. A bit like a scouser doing a burglary in Hertfordshire and finding a homeowner with a Glock.

They are not all mad, not all bad, there are some sensible ones, clever ones even.

was very impressed with your post , however i have just comeback from three weeks in Davenport just outside Orlando Florida and i have to say that i was amazed that virtually every morning , 'Good morning Orlando' the morning news show was reporting shooting deaths in Orlando and surrounding counties including a sherrifs deputy on a traffic stop , so i think Florida may have changed a little since you were there.
 
was very impressed with your post , however i have just comeback from three weeks in Davenport just outside Orlando Florida and i have to say that i was amazed that virtually every morning , 'Good morning Orlando' the morning news show was reporting shooting deaths in Orlando and surrounding counties including a sherrifs deputy on a traffic stop , so i think Florida may have changed a little since you were there.

I left there 6 months ago.

There are a few areas in the Orlando blob that are poop, likewise in Miami. I know some Orlando plods and they have told me some stories about what happens there at night, if the tourists knew they would'nt wander around so obliviously - International Drive used to be well known for its late night muggings.

Generally though my experience of Florida is that it is much safer than other parts of the USA. They get 50, 000, 000 tourists a year, it is their main income streamand they don't want or need to lose that. If anything Florida is over-policed to make sure that all the tourists can spend their money safely for 2 or 3 weeks and put the sales tax in the pocket of the State - there is no personal State income tax in Florida and they are reliant on sales tax.

Up till about 15 - 20 years ago it used to be almost wild west down in Florida, then they introduced the concealed carry law. A few muggers got some well publicised surprises and things quietened down.
 
From an American Armed Forces website:

On the MRAPS . . . so the Army bought something like 26 different variants in the mad MRAP buying spree and they don’t want to keep them all. Of the ones they are keeping they want to keep something like the 13 most common variants to reduce fleet maintenance costs (same spare parts, etc). On top of that, of the ones they are keeping, a lot of them are going into a deferred maintenance status, meaning they are just going to park them & seal them up until they are needed again.

So . . . between the excess inventory and the desire to reduce the remaining variants to common vehicle configurations, there is a whole crapload of this stuff Army is getting rid of. Before you scrap stuff like that or send it to DRMO, you offer it for transfer to other federal agencies pursuant to the Economy Act.

That means DHS is getting all this stuff for (almost) free. They are useful to DHS not because they are MRAPS, but because they are bulletproof . . . meaning they are the armored cars that LEOs always want to deal with encamped shooters and such . . . but usually can’t afford . . . unless the Army is giving them away for free.
 

Grumblegrunt

LE
Book Reviewer
well he is an actual deputy sheriff which shows in his later movies as all those donuts take their toll.
 

Hespera

Old-Salt
There's an interesting recent study into US beliefs published on 2 April 2013 here: http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/2011/PPP_Release_National_ConspiracyTheories_040213.pdf

There are a significant number of paranoid loons in the US.

Thank you for the link. I had not seen this before, and admit that it is rather entertaining. I wonder if there is a comparative study for the UK? For Europe?

On a slightly different note, I have spent the last five minutes trying to pick a favourite question in this study, and have narrowed it down to these two:

Q13 Do you believe that shape-shifting reptilian people control our world by taking on human form and gaining political power to manipulate our societies, or not?

Q16 Do you believe media or the government adds secret mind-controlling technology to television broadcast signals, or not?


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D

Deleted 20555

Guest
I thought that it quite amusing that 13% of Americans are convinced that Obama is the anti Christ and another 13% are not entirely convinced he isn't....is that like 80 million people??????


Yep just like us - well apart from the peculiar spelling and inability to travel to Cuba or accept the metric system. But apart from that - exactly the same!!!
 

alib

LE
...
Now up here where I live now, in the tri-state area - thats NY state, Pennsylvania and New Jersey - if you so much as mention the word "gun" you get looked at like you are some kind of psychopath. People who do shoot are a tad more discreet about it than elsewhere in the USA, California is the same apparently. In total contrast to down south I have met many, many people up here in the North east who have never touched, held, fired or even bloody well seen a privately owned firearm. In many places it is even against the law to shoot an airsoft pistol in the back garden.

Up here in the North East I too do not tell people I own guns or that I shoot.

I'm not a shrink, or a sociologist but I like people watching and the attitudes and approaches to guns a totally different in the more cosmopolitan areas of the US to the more far flung and rural areas. Look at north Philly, 10,000 murders in ten years, that does'nt happen down south or out west......'cos you never know if the biff you are going to mug has a gun, so you don't. Most of the trouble we used to hear about in Florida was from northerners that had recently come down and tried it on. A bit like a scouser doing a burglary in Hertfordshire and finding a homeowner with a Glock.

They are not all mad, not all bad, there are some sensible ones, clever ones even.
I've come across this divide as well, you have frankly rather dangerous areas in the big urban centers like Chicago with some boroughs where the state has essentially ceded control to the locals and a proliferation of handguns is rightly regarded as a plague. Here it's plain to see that reckless kids getting their hands on dark economy pistols in large numbers means more dead kids, lots more. Accidental shootings of passers by are common. Here there really is case for folk needing guns for protection but a white guy daft enough to be swaggering around doing the open carry thing is likely to get himself shot for his piece. It's not the Wild West, guns have almost no deterrent effect, it's simply far more dangerous, Wyatt Earp wouldn't last a weekend. Only an idiot becomes a 2nd amendment zealot in those benighted places it's quite rational to see handguns are a work of Satan to be banished from the earth, even if the actual problem is societal.

Such cities have naturally developed very tough gun laws which apply even in the far less scary parts of town, if not out in the sticks where illegal gun dealers often source their kit.

It's also fairly common to see gun owners and gun rights advocates as morally inferior critters who have strayed from the path of the righteous. A similar mostly Northern attitude got right on the nipple ends of Dixie's slave owners a while back as well and it was part of the cause of rather a lot of unpleasantness.

Then you've got white bread rural and suburban America, in parts of which legally held guns are regularly carried even though there is little crime. And in some cases this may suppress the types of crime committed between strangers that most folk are fear. This provides elements of deterrence but also more importantly a feeling of safety. Here guns simply aren't a problem. Of course its mostly acquaintances who actually murder each other, often blood kin, but the use of guns in this is seen as tragically incidental. Guns don't kill people, people do, actually them uns from the wrong side of the tracks and they are either white trash or another variety.

Even as the traditional pastime of hunting has faded and gun owners have become a shrinking aging population guns here are also associated positively (if too insistently) with the basic freedoms of US citizens and increasingly have become a partisan marker. It's a peculiarly embattled position that's more than a little paranoid as there is no realistic chance of major gun law changes ever getting through congress. I think it's not unconnected with the far more important fight over immigration which it's clear the GOP is starting to acknowledge is a lost cause.

A lot of US politics is like this, conducted from different mutually unintelligible bubbles. One side demanding an interventionist state, as urban life often demands active government and communal action the other perplexed as to why you'd want the Feds in your hair, when you can drive to the mall and fortify your gated condo.
 

Grumblegrunt

LE
Book Reviewer
are all the rest santanists then - they do go overboard with xmas fakery along with every other thing they can ruin
 
IIRC he's been a real LEO* for years doing regular shifts in his hometown. some of the people he arrested asked for his autograph.


Seagal is a reserve deputy sheriff in Jefferson Parish Louisiana.

Yeah I've seen that TV show about him- Steven Seagal: Lawman

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/lostinshowbiz/2009/aug/28/steven-seagal-lawman

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1329291/

More on the Lawmong:

http://www.avclub.com/articles/steven-seagal-accused-of-killing-a-puppy-and-hundr,61146/
 
I thought that it quite amusing that 13% of Americans are convinced that Obama is the anti Christ and another 13% are not entirely convinced he isn't....is that like 80 million people??????

No its just the 26% unemployed who bothered to answer the phone when called rather than hangup. The rest of us are too busy to bother with such polls.
 

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