Coup dEtat in all but name in Zimbabwe?

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by barbs, Jun 6, 2008.

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  1. Zimbabwean generals have 'taken Robert Mugabe's power'

    Daily Telegraph 6 Jun 08 by David Blair

    Ahh, Africa... democracy in action.
     
  2. This is simply because they're all shit scared that if the MDC were to ever get back into power and institute anything even close to resembling a properly functioning criminal justice system they'd be banged up for their past crimes - some of which could quite easily be crimes against humanity, see the Matabeleland actions back in the 80s - plus be deprived of all the loot that they've acquired under Mugabe. Apparently whilst he was wrecking the economy and running the country into the ground he still found time to make sure that everything was fully documented and stored away in a safe place.

    The most pragmatic thing that the MDC could do from what I can see would be to offer a blanket amnesty for anyone in the armed forces, police and security services under a certain rank (say for example majors or comparable rank and under) along the lines of South Africa's Truth and Reconciliation Commission. Get the rank and file on your side, since even they're suffering now thanks to 1.5m%, and then go after the senior blokes once they're in power.
     
  3. ugly

    ugly LE Moderator

    It seems also that MDC is manned by ex Zanu people so perhaps they may not want all the truth themselves, admittedly they seem to be better than whats there!
     
  4. Lets be honest, for Zim to become a stable productive country again it needs a "Colonial" Government run by Colonials.

    There is no African Country that has prospered under it's own rule, most have gone backwards. The only people better off after Colonial rule ended are the members of the Tribe that took over the country.
     
  5. Not really. Zim. has been in the hands of a wholly corrupt Government run by a criminal and murderous group intent on self enrichment for a while now. Mugabe may have held sway for many years but latterly was a useful figurehead for them to hide behind?

    Country will just become a more and more miserable place to live for the people but will not collapse as long as the Chinese can keep prop up the corrupt Government (still run by said criminal and murderous group intent on self enrichment) in order to protect their African interests, which in the case of Zim. is mainly access to raw materials such as copper.
     
  6. Why do you think that is? I am not disagreeing, just want your POV as to why things worked out that way.

    Quiet coup in Zim? Read this the other day but have no idea if it is true or not. TBH I am almost at the point of not caring anymore, The vast majority of sub-Saharan African countries seem to have a government that does not care about it's own citizens welfare and just line their own pockets. It occurs to me that we are now in the same boat.
     
  7. Part of it will be African culture I suppose. I've been in several African countries and it's the been the same in all of them. Africans (in Africa)don't have the same urgency and get up and go in my view, things are done along the old Tribal lines.

    I've helped train African Police and Army, and once we put in the organisation etc the Africans worked hard , learnt well and were a great bunch but once we left things would just slide backwards. We came back to one place after 3 months and it was disheartning to see how sh*te things had become, but within a few days we had the unit back on it's feet.

    I think that Africa, when you get past the corruption and mess is a great place and the Africans are a great people. I found the further into the Bush you went the nicer they were.

    I don't have an answer and any solution that involves the West will be seen as racist, imperialism at work.

    I had Africans say to me that they were better off when the "whites" ran the country. I know "whites" running the country isn't all good and there were many things wrong but it wasn't all that bad either.

    My Sniper team.
     

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  8. Perturbed. Don't forget that African cultures were pretty primitive and undeveloped when Europeans imposed their ideas of culture and organisation. When these were withdrawn, the locals just fell back onto their own indigenous ways . . hence it seems to have gone backwards.

    I think that there is a case for letting them get on with it. If we are obliged to feel the colonial guilt so popular among the metropolitan wittering classes, then why should we complain if they resort to their own idea of culture. We only whine because we are still comparing them to European cultures. If they want to fall back on their own ways then let 'em.

    Look at the way South Africa is sliding back into a sort of casual violence that never existed under Apartheid. All of the infrastructure that the Europeans put in place for the indigenous population under Apartheid is now crumbling, not being developed.

    It's just their way. Let 'em be I say, no-one would ever accept a European nation going to organise them anyway.
     
  9. Thats a pretty fair assessment .
     
  10. squiffy_parsons and ericthellama:

    I pretty much agree. It is the prevalent culture (tribal) rather than innate ability that afflicts most black African countries. Europe and Asia went through all the hassle that is happening in Africa, we just did it earlier. The reasons we did it earlier had nothing much to do with ability and a lot to do with resources. It was much easier for the first civilisations to spread East-West than North-South. The first civilisation (that we know about) being in what is now Iraq.
     
  11. There was an amusing amount of hand-wringing going on during Question Time last night when an Afro Caribbean gent posed the question about Zimbabwe. They all knew that there was f*ck all we could do about it and that we had zero influence over any outcome. The whole spectacle made embarrassing viewing. Shami Chakrabarti still managed to bleat on about their refugees for a while though . . bless her.
     
  12. squiffy and others: I whole heartedly agree that a colonial government could possibly work (we were not pleasant but at least we kept law and order). Africa's problems stem from the former colonial powers. We drew the lines on the map and split everyone up (the idea was that they would kill each other instead of us) so when we buggered off it was a free for all on who would get the power and wealth (The most stable African nations are those that have had and still do have a heavy "white influence")

    The issues in Africa are terrible and have been continuing for decades without almost no intervention from us (the west) this is mainly because they are of no threat to our own countries and they are no longer of any use to us. Plus the chaos that is present in Africa can help alot of people get very rich (the diamond trade for example)
     
  13. I saw it too...she doesnt know what she is talking about and basically danced around civil liberties despite no matter what the discussion (she even admitted that she did not understand legislation properly)
    Every point she made regarding anything was wrong!!! I don like her!
     
  14. ugly

    ugly LE Moderator

    South African electrical supply is a good example of the way the dark continent is slipping back into the darkness, during Apartheid AC= Alternating Current, DC = direct current, now ANC= Absolutely No Current!
     
  15. I was wondering what the score was the other day when I saw him in Rome with the UN loophole allowing the evil old cnut to flout the European travel ban on him and his entourage. Surely there must be some way that he could be arrested for crimes against humanity while on foreign soil? Or has the bastard got diplomatic immunity or something while he's over here?

    As for his wife Grace spunking God only knows how much in boutiques over there while their people starve- 'since when has it been a crime to shop?' she apparently asked when confronted about it. Smacks of Marie Antoinnette and the whole 'let them eat cake' thing. It's not a crime to shop, but neither should it be a crime to slot any of these bastards when they grace us with their loathsome presence.