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Council of Scottish Colonels in a rush?

#1
Daily Record - 9 Mar 05 -

FURY OVER 'INSULT' TO REGIMENTS Mar 9 2005


TOP brass have secretly planned to bring forward the date when Scotland's six regiments are merged.

The Council of Scottish Colonels will recommend to Defence Secretary Geoff Hoon that the 'super regiment' formation should take place on St Andrew's Day, 13 months early.

Campaigners last night branded the plan an 'insult'.

Jeff Duncan, of Save The Scottish Regiments, said: 'It is a disgrace to disband regiments with hundreds of years of history on Scotland's national day.'

The latest plans were revealed in a leaked memo from a member of the council. In it, Major General Mark Strudwick, the Royal Scots' regimental colonel, said: 'It has been agreed that we should form the new regiment as early as possible.

'To that end, the Council of Scottish Colonels has decided that formation day should not be later than January 1,2006.'

The memo, dated February 24, 2005, also said a vesting day would be organised before January 1, 2007, when Scotland's six regular battalions would become five.

However, a senior military source revealed that both ceremonies are likely to be joined for one formal event.

He said: 'It is widely known the council will recommend that the amalgamation should take place in November on St Andrew's Day.'

Last night, an Army spokeswoman said: 'The only date set in concrete is that it must be in place by January 1,2007
 
#5
RCSignals said:
Daily Record - 9 Mar 05 -

Campaigners last night branded the plan an 'insult'.

Jeff Duncan, of Save The Scottish Regiments, said: 'It is a disgrace to disband regiments with hundreds of years of history on Scotland's national day.'
Talk about twisting the knife!
What absolute b****cks! They're not being disbanded are they? They're being merged, which means the St Andrew's Day or any other date will be the day the new regiment is founded, at least as much as it is that old ones will march off into the sunset. So, to placate some jumped-up old duffer the new regiment should start its life in shame and ignominy as the Regt that the country was too ashamed of, and disgusted with, to form-up on its own national day.
Spare a thought for the blokes who will actually serve in and take pride in the new Jock Regt now and in the future, rather than trying to cut off your nose to spite your face and indulging your martyr complex.
Tessor!
 
#6
JB said:
What absolute b****cks! They're not being disbanded are they? They're being merged, which means the St Andrew's Day or any other date will be the day the new regiment is founded, at least as much as it is that old ones will march off into the sunset. So, to placate some jumped-up old duffer the new regiment should start its life in shame and ignominy as the Regt that the country was too ashamed of, and disgusted with, to form-up on its own national day.
Spare a thought for the blokes who will actually serve in and take pride in the new Jock Regt now and in the future, rather than trying to cut off your nose to spite your face and indulging your martyr complex.
Tessor!
So you fully support the government and its plan to dump Scottish history and forcebly amalgamate these historic regiments into one super regiment?

A force of measures which are purely fiscal and not to serve any tactical measure! So you think yhis is a good idea and want to ignore all " the old duffers" who watched friends and family die wearing the cap-badge they are so proud to wear?

By the way, are you in the services? And perhaps I might add you matey are the fecking t@sser
 
#8
JB said:
What absolute b****cks! They're not being disbanded are they? They're being merged, which means the St Andrew's Day or any other date will be the day the new regiment is founded, at least as much as it is that old ones will march off into the sunset. So, to placate some jumped-up old duffer the new regiment should start its life in shame and ignominy as the Regt that the country was too ashamed of, and disgusted with, to form-up on its own national day.
Spare a thought for the blokes who will actually serve in and take pride in the new Jock Regt now and in the future, rather than trying to cut off your nose to spite your face and indulging your martyr complex.
Tessor!
Some perfectly arguable points in there - for example, I also happen to disagree with Jeff Duncan that forming the new regiment on Saint Andrew's Day would be an insult.

JB's arguments unfortunately much diminished IMHO by language such as "old duffers" and "indulging your martyr complex". Presumably "old duffers" also applies to retired servicemen who have every intention of supporting the new regiment in any way they can, within the community, when or if it happens. :roll:
 
#9
dui-lai said:
So you fully support the government and its plan to dump Scottish history and forcebly amalgamate these historic regiments into one super regiment?
No, but I think it's a done deal and more thought and support should be given to the blokes who are now going to have to live/work with it. If you don't think the Council of Scottish Colonels care about their Jocks and are trying to put a swift end to the current media torment that has been forced on them you are wrong. Bust. Remember what the old Rifle CO said when RGJ was being formed - 'better to suffer a painful end now than endless pain' - you can see what he was driving at.

A force of measures which are purely fiscal and not to serve any tactical measure! So you think yhis is a good idea and want to ignore all " the old duffers" who watched friends and family die wearing the cap-badge they are so proud to wear?
.
Largely fiscal, not completely. I'm not sure it's intended to serve a tactical purpose but rather a Strategic one - i.e. bns to deploy to theatre without needing to be backfilled/brought up to war establishment from other capbadges/reserves. And remember the Jocks are getting recut because bonny Scotland which is so proud of its Jocks isn't joining up. (Not their fault, it's a small population up there - smaller than London - but it does mean they can't reasonably be expected to provide as much of the army as they have done in the past when there were other demographic factors to drive them into the army).

By the way, are you in the services?
Yes, in an inf bn, with some good mates in Jock bns and many will agree privately that something needed to be done, because the system we had wasn't working; although naturally nobody wants it to be at the expense of their own capbadge/loyalty. Point to note here is our biggest problem in the Army, particularly Inf, is the same as our biggest strength - we are so b****y tribal - it's too easy to pplay us off against each other in a way that can't be done with RN/RAF to be done the way things stand at the moment.
I could ask if you are in a teeth arm and really understand any of this, but I won't bother and hey - you're entitled to your opinion...

And perhaps I might add you matey are the fecking t@sser
Your opinion, feller, go for it. I do, though, have some experience of banging my head against a wall with Regtl Association types who want to keep everything the way it was in 'the good old days' and can be a horribly divisive influence on post-amalgamation Bns. The point I'm trying to make is that rather than trying to go down with Colours nailed to the mast they should start thinking about how best to spt a new Jock Regt in its difficult early years.

Fair point on Hackle's comments posted while I was replying - language could have been more moderate; but, like I say, for some of us this is a bit close to the bone already
 

BuggerAll

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
#10
I have not yet seen a good reason for the new super regiments other than saving money. I am against it.

But if its got to be done then it might as well be done well, and lets not drag the agony out longer than we have to.

St Andrew's Day 2006 sounds like a good day for the new Scottish Regiment ot form up. We can celebrate that.

It will of course be a day of ignomony for Nue Arbeit and that lickspittle greaser buffHoon. I wonder if he would have the gall to turn up? Hopefully his advisors will tell him to keep well away.
 
#11
JB is obviously a stool pigeon, and not a very good one at that. Ignore him. The Council of Scottish Councils is notorious for being a collection of clapped out, sycophantic yes-men and time servers. The only person to emerge from the sorry debacle of the Scottish regiments looming disbandment (yes, they're being disbanded - just look at what's to happen to their funds and museums) with any sort of honour is Jeff Duncan of the Save The Scottish Regiments campaign, whose unremunerated energy and passion shames the assorted old duffers who have rolled over without a whimper. Essentially he's been doing the Scottish Colonels' job for them.
 
#12
Interesting how the centuries of history of current Regiments is so dismissed by some, yet the thought of the start for the "new" Regiment and its yet to come "history" so important.
 
E

error_unknown

Guest
#13
I have to agree with JB. The formation of the 'super-regiments' although painful for those who came up through the old tribal/family system is an obviously good idea, allowing greater career flexibility for individual officers and soldiers, as well as considerably more flexibility (and stability, somewhat perversely) for training and operations. I suspect that in practice, those who want to bury their heads in the sand and soldier on in one battalion will still be able to do so.

What was less obviously good was the decision to cut the number of infantry battalions, in effect spending our 'peace dividend' from NI before it's actually paid out. I wonder if there was any linkage between the decision to cut back the infantry and PIRA's decision to go ahead with the Northern Bank job, on the basis we have demonstrated our intention of giving them a free hand in the Province?
 
#14
It would never have happened if the Queen mother was still alive; or if Buff and BLiar had the faintest idea of how to run a knocking shop for that matter...
 
#16
QUOTE..... IRONSIDE.

The Council of Scottish Councils is notorious for being a collection of clapped out, sycophantic yes-men and time servers. The only person to emerge from the sorry debacle of the Scottish regiments looming disbandment (yes, they're being disbanded - just look at what's to happen to their funds and museums) with any sort of honour is Jeff Duncan of the Save The Scottish Regiments campaign, whose unremunerated energy and passion shames the assorted old duffers who have rolled over without a whimper. Essentially he's been doing the Scottish Colonels' job for them.[/quote]


WELL SAID THAT MAN!
 
#17
chickenpunk said:
The formation of the 'super-regiments' although painful for those who came up through the old tribal/family system is an obviously good idea, allowing greater career flexibility for individual officers and soldiers, as well as considerably more flexibility (and stability, somewhat perversely) for training and operations. I suspect that in practice, those who want to bury their heads in the sand and soldier on in one battalion will still be able to do so.
Time will CP however that tickling sensation around my hoop tells me that the distance between the theory and the reality is probably going to be large. Options for Change - Leaner but Better. Yer right.
 

X-Inf

War Hero
Book Reviewer
#18
[quote="JB
.
Largely fiscal, not completely. I'm not sure it's intended to serve a tactical purpose but rather a Strategic one - i.e. bns to deploy to theatre without needing to be backfilled/brought up to war establishment from other capbadges/reserves. quote]

Interesting theory, especially considering the report in the Glasgow herald recently which says that military planner have decided there are at least 5 areas where they could not station bns permanently because they would not be able to keep them manned. (Sorry I don't have the link to the story available) One of the areas is Dhekelia in Cyprus. That is classed as such a bad posting that soldiers would leave rather than spend their career there. NI is another and the Falklands I believe was mentioned.

So we have a situation where it will be necessary to keep bns static in base locations, except where it won't work! Where will these temporary soldiers come from? How will that maintain the continuity within units, and as for trickle postings, how that will maintain an individuals continuity for family life etc? I have yet to figure out.
 
#19
Why is it so bad for Infantry Battalions to be supersized, with one Regimental ethos, which would allow for trickle posting?

It works for the Royal Marines, after all, with three Battalions, Brigade HQ and a Logistic Regiment, and assorted postings to RN ships and shore stations.
 
#20
Mr_Relaxed said:
Why is it so bad for Infantry Battalions to be supersized, with one Regimental ethos, which would allow for trickle posting?

It works for the Royal Marines, after all, with three Battalions, Brigade HQ and a Logistic Regiment, and assorted postings to RN ships and shore stations.
The RM are in essence like a Regiment, so they can have as many Bns as required. Just as Army Regiments have had increased numbers of Bns in times of conflict. They don't have to be one Bn Regiments..

One thing that could have been done, as I said in another thread, rather than disband present Regiments, would be to decide which to keep on active status.
For example, the Black Watch, (RHR), with 2 to 3 Bns, the Royal Scots, with 2 to 3 bns, etc,
The remaining could be continued as reserve or TA Bns. until required for full time service in an emergency.

The current proposal wipes out all of the historical Regiments completely

The "Golden thread" concept and Bns with bracketed names of old Regiments is simply smoke and mirrors to sell the "new" plan.
 

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