Could we have stopped the bear?

LD17

MIA
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Proff3RTR

War Hero

LD17

MIA
BAOR Manpower Liabilities Jan 1989.......
I am intrigued that they wanted the BAOR Inf Bns to have a fourth Rifle Coy, I have to do the math and see if the WARRIOR order would be able to sustain that.
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LD17

MIA
That makes for gloomy reading, but the man hit the nail on he head, and all that way back, seems those in charge did not hear him, or did not give a damn.either way, bottom line as an armed force we are pretty much finished.
Paragraph 17, in particular, should be a MUST READ for the AJAX Team!
 
.........bottom line as an armed force we are pretty much finished.

Substantial armed forces definitely provide policy makers with more options and greater clout on the world stage. With more cuts the UK will lose influence and (for some) relevance.
 
Substantial armed forces definitely provide policy makers with more options and greater clout on the world stage. With more cuts the UK will lose influence and (for some) relevance.

They believe that drones, swarms and cyber, etc. will do the job in place of squaddies' boots on patrols.

Someone's spiked their tea, I think. Got to love their faith in BAe and its fantasy pedlars. Still it provides a top up for politicians, CSs and top brass' pensions, don't it, eh. Saving the taxpayers' (non-PAYE ones anyway) money. Back to the days of pre-Cardwell, indeed.
 

Proff3RTR

War Hero
Substantial armed forces definitely provide policy makers with more options and greater clout on the world stage. With more cuts the UK will lose influence and (for some) relevance.
We have very little relevance these days now anyway, problem is those in charge seem to think we are still a player. Those in charge have most certainly put pay to that.
 

Proff3RTR

War Hero
Paragraph 17, in particular, should be a MUST READ for the AJAX Team!
But both you and I know they will not. Heaven forbid they break with tradition and actually learn from past mistakes etc.
 
That was the intent, from what I gather from the docs I have…….every available FP would go to 1 BR Corps, the non-mechanized regular & TA Coys would be dug in villages & crossroads waiting for Ivan while mobile FPs on LRs would be driving around trying to take out a tank at a time. I have one paper that they explicitly mention acting like the German Defence in GOODWOOD and another references Alam El Halfa. The Armd Bdes would be swanning around waiting to hit them hard.
Indeed it was known as the GOODWOOD concept and was examined in several TEWTs and on FTX, I believe part of the 6 Airmobile Bde concept was to move high numbers of MILAN/TRIGAT FPs to fill gaps in the positional defensive structure.

Ideas such as the pintable , snooker table defence where the pockets represented the FPs where they all had interlocking arcs, in all directions, forwards backwards and sideway, all this taking advantage of the fact that on average that there is only 1.5km between built up areas in the BAOR area.
 

AlienFTM

MIA
Book Reviewer
Indeed it was known as the GOODWOOD concept and was examined in several TEWTs and on FTX, I believe part of the 6 Airmobile Bde concept was to move high numbers of MILAN/TRIGAT FPs to fill gaps in the positional defensive structure.

Ideas such as the pintable , snooker table defence where the pockets represented the FPs where they all had interlocking arcs, in all directions, forwards backwards and sideway, all this taking advantage of the fact that on average that there is only 1.5km between built up areas in the BAOR area.
The final (edit defensive***) phase of Spearpoint 80 was a withdrawal in contact around the South of Hannover and onto prepared positions atop a ridge at the bottom of a cul de sac where Orange were slaughtered. The phase was called GOODWOOD.

As map reader and escort scout car commander to CO 15/19H,* umpiring HQ Task Force Hotel, I had a ringside seat.
_____
* He had a lot more work to do than on a normal exercise and there was no real need for a rebro** (which was in fact my day job), so I moonlighted by map reading so he didn't have to direct his driver as well as everything else.

** And yet in fact, in two years crewing rebro Ferrets, Spearpoint was the only time I ever ran a rebro outside of my Control Signaller course.

*** Having given Orange a good seeing to, the usual morale boosting counteroffensive took place. TFH and therefore Command Troop 15/19H, were not involved, but we listened in on the Umpire Command Net as a German Panzerdivision went toe to toe with 2 US Armored Division (Hell on Wheels) in the centre of Hildesheim and the DamCon bill went through the roof, leading to 1 (Br) Corps calling Endex three days prematurely.

Having been shipped by train from Paderborn a week early for the Spearpoint Umpire CPX, Ex Javelin, 15/19H were tied to our Bundesbahn loading schedule, spending three days in a wood. First out, last back.
 
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LD17

MIA
Give us a revue of it when you can please .
@Pteranadon beat me to it....

Agree completely with his review.....
(full transparency, Jim Storr does mention he made use of my document for at least one tidbit of information).
The GDP details I am working on to add to my BAOR document line up with mentions in the book. One notable error, which may be from the printer/editor.....BAOR is referred to having 14 Inf Bns in a mech role, it was 13 throughout the 1980's (since 1982/83). Other than that everything, from what I know, is spot on.

Also I am trying to reach out to Jim Storr (Jim if you are lurking here please email me), apparently the 1 BR Corps GDP resides (as of 2009) with ARRC. I will be sending them and MOD an FOI. Jim Storr mentions this document that he used for information numerous times in the book

HQ Allied Rapid Reaction Corps' Reader for G5 Branch Operational Group Staff Ride 31 August - 3 September 2009.

Short Title: ARRCADE PLANNER

Conclusion....Get the Book!!!
 

Londo

LE
@Pteranadon beat me to it....

Agree completely with his review.....
(full transparency, Jim Storr does mention he made use of my document for at least one tidbit of information).
The GDP details I am working on to add to my BAOR document line up with mentions in the book. One notable error, which may be from the printer/editor.....BAOR is referred to having 14 Inf Bns in a mech role, it was 13 throughout the 1980's (since 1982/83). Other than that everything, from what I know, is spot on.

Also I am trying to reach out to Jim Storr (Jim if you are lurking here please email me), apparently the 1 BR Corps GDP resides (as of 2009) with ARRC. I will be sending them and MOD an FOI. Jim Storr mentions this document that he used for information numerous times in the book

HQ Allied Rapid Reaction Corps' Reader for G5 Branch Operational Group Staff Ride 31 August - 3 September 2009.

Short Title: ARRCADE PLANNER

Conclusion....Get the Book!!!
My daughter are treating me to a copy for my Birthday I'm pleased to say .
 

AlienFTM

MIA
Book Reviewer

Pteranadon

LE
Book Reviewer
@Pteranadon beat me to it....

Agree completely with his review.....
(full transparency, Jim Storr does mention he made use of my document for at least one tidbit of information).
The GDP details I am working on to add to my BAOR document line up with mentions in the book. One notable error, which may be from the printer/editor.....BAOR is referred to having 14 Inf Bns in a mech role, it was 13 throughout the 1980's (since 1982/83). Other than that everything, from what I know, is spot on.

Also I am trying to reach out to Jim Storr (Jim if you are lurking here please email me), apparently the 1 BR Corps GDP resides (as of 2009) with ARRC. I will be sending them and MOD an FOI. Jim Storr mentions this document that he used for information numerous times in the book

HQ Allied Rapid Reaction Corps' Reader for G5 Branch Operational Group Staff Ride 31 August - 3 September 2009.

Short Title: ARRCADE PLANNER

Conclusion....Get the Book!!!
I did an FOI in 2009 and was told that it did not exist by the MOD deputy chief information officer. Mungo Melvin also told me it did not exist. Maybe someone kept a copy. I am slightly suspicious as his description of the 4 Div's brigade roles does not marry up with my own recollections if the GPD from 1987 to March 1989. 20 brigade defended the Seesen Gap rather than the div reserve. Maybe the GDP changed radically later in 1989 just before it all ended.
 

LD17

MIA
I did an FOI in 2009 and was told that it did not exist by the MOD deputy chief information officer. Mungo Melvin also told me it did not exist. Maybe someone kept a copy. I am slightly suspicious as his description of the 4 Div's brigade roles does not marry up with my own recollections if the GPD from 1987 to March 1989. 20 brigade defended the Seesen Gap rather than the div reserve. Maybe the GDP changed radically later in 1989 just before it all ended.
That's exactly what I was told, even reached out to Mungo Melvin also.....but I had read that NATO had pulled it out for an exercise fairly recently (in the 2000's), for the life of me I can't remember the name.

I do know that 4/7 DG was supposed to be the Covering Force (not the whole 20 Bde) in 4 AD's sector and there was a Hartz Group which I don't have much info on at this time.
 

skeetstar

War Hero
I forgot to mention, there is an insightful anecdote at 09:20. Apparently, the entire course of the Battle of Goose Green was determined by a moment of private prayer.

It's amazing how great a contrast there was between the leadership styles, and world views, of the Battalion commander (Jones) and his 2IC Keeble. It says a lot about the British army of the time that there was room for both within a single battalion.
Did keeble go on to be an Anglican churchman? I only ask, cos when talking to the Archbishop of Canterbury as one does, he told me an anecdote of a very aggressive Para regiment officer in the FI who.. went on to be a minister in the CofE
 

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