Could the Germans have won WW2?

Yokel

LE
I thought the reason for fighting in North Africa and the Mediterranean was to deny the Germans access to Middle East oilfields?

Nazism was such an evil ideology it was self defeating, diverting industrial resources and manpower manpower from fighting to murder Jews more efficiently, and having unquestioning obedience to Hitler than meant unsound ideas could not be opposed.
 
What if... if Hitler had drawn back from invading Poland at the last hour. has placed all the troops from that planned invasion back to Germany and sent them all on block leave after wiping down their Panzers and cleaning and returning their MP40s and Mausers to the arms cote, then when everyone was in a bit of a spin, asks calmly for a conference with Wenher Von Braun, lebensraum, and not on earth, where would Germany be now, where would be world be now?
Not discussing Brexit!!
 

Ravers

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Not gassing, shooting or starving large portions of their human resources.
Yep. It’s a clear indication of how ******* bat faced and loony they actually were.

Given that Britain was completely stretched during the war, what with rationing and pretty much everyone doing their bit, it’s quite astounding how the Nazis would prioritise a big chunk of their resources just to murder a few million people.

One assumes that things were just as bad in Germany as they were here, if not worse.

You can imagine the meetings in the Reichstag.

”Heil Hitler, the allies have just destroyed Dresden, our citizens are starving and our tanks are running out of fuel. What shall we do mein fuhrer?”

”Build some more railways and gas chambers. Send a fair chunk of our army to guard starving civilians. That’ll show em.”

Bonkers.
 
No - and that response is offered without great concern for higher strategic and geopolitical failures. The Germany of this period was even more mired in the national pastime of a suffocating and petty bureaucracy than at any other time in their history.

Simply put, there were Party organisations which duplicated the efforts of the more traditional functions of Government: as was proved time and again, Party meddling and grasping for functional territory would have ultimately strangled the war effort.

As an exemplar, I responded to a similar thread with the post below, hopefully highlighting the muddle which Nazi Germany had forced on itself.

Exemplified by the petty meddling and bureaucracy of the NSDAP functionaries, at all levels.

Consider the Bahnschutzpolizei (Railway Protection Police). From 1941 to the end of the war, this organisation fielded two different styles of uniform tunic, necessitating two sets of collar patches to indicate the seven rank grades. There were nine different types of shoulder straps/epaulettes, six variations of cuff titles, each one differing according to the rank of the wearer.

Two styles of hat, four types of chin strap, three different arm eagles and sixteen various trade badges-and all for an organisation who's task it was to protect railway property, maintain law and order and investigate minor crimes on the Reichsbahn.
 
If they had continued across the Channel straight after capturing France they would have had unrestricted access to the Middle Eastern fields.
IF, they actually managed to cross the channel.
IF, they managed to secure a beach head.
IF, they then managed to keep the beach head re-supplied.

The Kriegsmarine being outnumbered 10:1 by the Royal Navy in destroyers alone might have resulted in a rather unhappy outcome for them had they tried.
 

Mrsheeny

Old-Salt
Yep. It’s a clear indication of how ******* bat faced and loony they actually were.

Given that Britain was completely stretched during the war, what with rationing and pretty much everyone doing their bit, it’s quite astounding how the Nazis would prioritise a big chunk of their resources just to murder a few million people.

One assumes that things were just as bad in Germany as they were here, if not worse.

You can imagine the meetings in the Reichstag.

”Heil Hitler, the allies have just destroyed Dresden, our citizens are starving and our tanks are running out of fuel. What shall we do mein fuhrer?”

”Build some more railways and gas chambers. Send a fair chunk of our army to guard starving civilians. That’ll show em.”

Bonkers.
I heard a theory that Hitler didn’t intend to win the war, just to kill as many Joo’s as possible. Even when the war was ending the resources were still being put towards killing Joo’s rather than fight or save Germany.
 

diverman

LE
Book Reviewer
IF, they actually managed to cross the channel.
IF, they managed to secure a beach head.
IF, they then managed to keep the beach head re-supplied.

The Kriegsmarine being outnumbered 10:1 by the Royal Navy in destroyers alone might have resulted in a rather unhappy outcome for them had they tried.
Plus it has been postulated that Churchill would have authorised the release chemical weapons to be used on the beacheads, mainly mustard gas.
 
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Stalin would probably have attacked Hitler somewhere anyway and the Soviets were probably the only nation which could’ve defeated Hitler on their own.
Not so sure about that. The Soviets were very dependent upon both USA and our help to keep going. I don't think their mechanisation would have struggled without US trucks and the supply routes were pretty important.

 
IF, they actually managed to cross the channel.
IF, they managed to secure a beach head.
IF, they then managed to keep the beach head re-supplied.

The Kriegsmarine being outnumbered 10:1 by the Royal Navy in destroyers alone might have resulted in a rather unhappy outcome for them had they tried.
couldn't agree more, German landing craft just didn't exist, they were converting heavy Rhein barges, although thick enough to take a .303 eight gun burst, the very bow wave from a RN destroyed would have sent poor Fritz to the bottom of the English channel, shame really, all that German kit from 1940 on the seabed, would make great scuba diving today.
 
Not so sure about that. The Soviets were very dependent upon both USA and our help to keep going. I don't think their mechanisation would have struggled without US trucks and the supply routes were pretty important.

US and British support helped Stalin hugely.

However, the Soviets enjoyed enormous strategic depth in terms of both geography and manpower which - quite literally - ate the Wehrmach. It would’ve taken many more years, but Germany could never have matched Soviet numbers, even if the Red Army had needed to manoeuvre on horses.

Regards,
MM
 
Plus it has been psotulated that Churchill would have authorised the release chemical weapons to be used on the beacheads, mainly mustard gas.
Yup. Had the Germans attempted a crossing the result would have been brutal. All bets were off. Mustard gas, flame barriers, you name it. And then the entire Home Fleet would have sailed south from Scapa, formed line abreast and just steamed through the middle of what was left.
 
Not so sure about that. The Soviets were very dependent upon both USA and our help to keep going. I don't think their mechanisation would have struggled without US trucks and the supply routes were pretty important.


Nope.

lend lease was a tiny trickle in 1942/43, More us trying to show willing, rather than any strategic effect, only really getting into its stride in 1944.

german defeats Moscow 1941, Stalingrad 1942, Kursk 1943 were home team.

Germany was effectively out of the war after Kursk in Mid 1943.
they had lost their entire strategic reserve and never regained the initiative..... Berlin was the inevitable next stop for the Soviet Army.
 
Not so sure about that. The Soviets were very dependent upon both USA and our help to keep going. I don't think their mechanisation would have struggled without US trucks and the supply routes were pretty important.

The Soviets were able to fight the war without distractions. They didn't need to build more warships as the British and Canadians effectively covered the naval side. They didn't need to build strategic bombers as that was covered by the Americans and British. So all they needed to concentrate on (ALL?!) was an army and tactical air. Even their logistics were covered by the other allies to a large extent.
 

diverman

LE
Book Reviewer
US and British support helped Stalin hugely.

However, the Soviets enjoyed enormous strategic depth in terms of both geography and manpower which - quite literally - ate the Wehrmach. It would’ve taken many more years, but Germany could never have matched Soviet numbers, even if the Red Army had needed to manoeuvre on horses.

Regards,
MM
Germany was doomed from the day Barorossa started. Hitler just extended himself as you say far too far and went far too early into Russia. If he had waited until 1944 to attack Russia he may have had a better outcome initially but the end result would have been the same. The other advantage was the Russians only had a war on one front as the Japanese concentrated on the Americans. Again that would have been another logistics war. Japan like Germany was low on basic resources such as metals and oil. Russia did not declare war on Japan until very very near the end of the far east war.
 
Not so sure about that. The Soviets were very dependent upon both USA and our help to keep going. I don't think their mechanisation would have struggled without US trucks and the supply routes were pretty important.

The Wiki page of the Persian Corridor is written from a US-centric view; ignoring the fact there were c 100,000 British and Imperial troops defending it. The closest the Germans got was In May 1941 when they assisted Raschid in Mesopotamia (Iraq) in overthrowing the pro British monarchy, with Vichy and Italian assistance. But they didn't predict the plucky resistance of some RAF Flight Cadets flying prewar biplanes and Assyrian Levies cutting about in 25 year old Rolls Royce Armoured cars at Habbaniya. Had they been successful it was likely that Turkey, that ever-faithful ally, would have joined the Axis cause and there would have been a land bridge all the way to Berlin (Bosphorus notwithstanding). There was even a plan for a pipeline from the oilfields of Mosul to Germany!
 
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US and British support helped Stalin hugely.

However, the Soviets enjoyed enormous strategic depth in terms of both geography and manpower which - quite literally - ate the Wehrmach. It would’ve taken many more years, but Germany could never have matched Soviet numbers, even if the Red Army had needed to manoeuvre on horses.

Regards,
MM
I believe it was Stalin who said " quantity has a quality all it's own" or words to that extent. I agree that the distances involved in supplying the Wermacht in the Soviet Union alone contributed to the German defeat, let alone the manpower, weather and homeland advantage that the Soviets had.
 

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