Could Republican and Loyalist terrorism be contained, if Sinn Fein pushed for unification?

Templer had the unusual (and self-appointed) role in Malaya as High Commissioner and Director of Operations, and was the driving force of implementing the Briggs Plan, bring civil, police and military activities under one roof. He went on to be CIGS (=CDS). His predecessor, Sir Henry Gurney, was assassinated in his official car by Communist 'bandits'. He was travelling with his wife and an escort of two armoured cars and on a bed the CTs attacked, riddling his car with bullets. To save his wife, he calmly got out of the car and drew fire away from his wife (and ADC - who died very recently) and walked to his death. Gurney's predecessor, Sir Edward Gent DSO MC, died in a plane crash at Northolt in 1948. He had been recalled to London to face questioning about his handling of the civil unrest in Malaya, as well as an investigation into his alleged communist leanings. Templer was very much an 'Action This Day' sort of chap and the IRA injured him when they bombed the (old) In and Out Club on 11 October 1974. They also attacked the Victory Services Club the same day. He was quick shaken by this, and after than hardly stepped out of his home; at home he sat with a revolver, apparently.
Amazing detail.
 
the Boys Brigade were a more formidable para military that the Orange eejits.
Loyalism won and Republicans lost. I'd say they fulfilled their remit.

Wiki doesn't tell you that does it.. Some sinnerbot has edited the historical facts out..
 
There’s the problem as always of getting the stuff over the wet bit. Permanent VCP on Boris’s bridge. The main worry would be the amount of cheap weaponry still running around the Balkans.

Edit. That stuffs probably being bought up by MI6

And the minor problem of the local sea of support for the loyalist terrorists to swim in. It’s not a very big place and the safe areas would be somewhat limited. Geographically and socially.
It's got in before, it'll get in, in future.
 
Amazing detail.
I did a Staff College 'Leadership' paper on him about 15 years ago, and interviewed people who had worked for him (now all dead). He was a very cantankerous chap, even before the bombing, suffering from chronic back pain (due to a mess piano being dropped on him during some 'high jinx' as a junior officer).
 
It's got in before, it'll get in, in future.
I think several ships, small coaster type, from Libya got through and one intercepted by French Navy (UK or RoI Int?).. If an ocean going ship with no crew and no power can pitch up on an Irish beach unnoticed pretty sure a fishing boat or yacht could drop off a cargo.
 
It was the Combined Loyalist Military Command and came into effect in the late 1980's.
From then onwards the Loyalist campaign was ramped up and by the 1990's they were outkilling the IRA and INLA.
It also marked a return to Loyalists using explosives, which had mainly disappeared in the late 1970's.
Fair comment, proably their most effective time 'militarily'
 
Last edited:

skid2

LE
Book Reviewer
Given how much the demographic has changed since the GFA was signed would there really be the appetite for violence on the scale of the 70s & 80s? I think people have sort of got used to and prefer the idea of walking down the street without the fear of the car they are walking past going boom. And if such violence were to occur, who would be the focus of Unionist attacks? Assuming a united Ireland has happened and the Unionists decide to kick off would they be shooting and bombing the people and infrastructure of the ROI or would they be attacking the people and infrastructure of Great Britain? If the latter I would imagine that the average Brit would be glad to have got rid of the troublesome paddies. Neither could I see a campaign of violence on the streets of cities like London, Birmingham, Manchester, Liverpool, Glasgow et al be a way of persuading the British Government to do a volte face and welcome NI back into the fold.

Loyalist terrorist targets. The softest and easiest available. Any poor sod caught on fringe areas.
Not for nothing was a particular bar because of where it was sited and the demographic of those who drank in it, known as ‘The Sitting Duck’.
 
He was an amazing chap but not a Knight Templar. He was a plain old Irish Templer.
The number of Irishmen or men with Ireland connections involved in the middle and upper echelons during the colonial wars is quite impressive.

I am thinking, off the top of my head, of Doulgas Duff, Henry Tudor, and Charles Tegart - and the seven hundred 'tans and Auxies' that wnt direct to Palestine to join them.
 
Coming back to the OP, it was T.E.Lawrence who said that fighting an insurgency was 'messy, slow and long....like eating soup with a knife'. Perhaps soup has been repackaged, but we won't really know until the next COIN conflict - whatever the doctrine it didn't work too well in Basra.
 
Loyalist terrorist targets. The softest and easiest available. Any poor sod caught on fringe areas.
Not for nothing was a particular bar because of where it was sited and the demographic of those who drank in it, known as ‘The Sitting Duck’.
There was plenty of Republicans targeted from the 1980's onwards.

At the same time Loyalists were never behind the door in saying they looked to sow fear in the Nationalist community as it was they who supported and aided the PIRA in it's activities.
 
yes, a bit more sophisticated in Norn Iron, more your red, white, blue or green, white, orange kerbs and the murals to denote the townships... the RUC of course was a bastion of diversity, as long as you only liked orange sashes, and the firms that didn’t employ teagues of course.
Brexit taunting loosing its appeal is it?
 
Brexit taunting loosing its appeal is it?
He never replied to my factual rebuttal of his crass comment.

He hasn't got a clue about the goings on in this country during the troubles.
 
Last edited:
I've skipped through several pages of this dirge just to give my own specul opinion. As an Englishman who lives along the boarder the way it is at the moment is ace for everyone except the poor English who pay for our utopia and don't know it. Cross boarder trade is cross boarder trade. No one is going to interfere. I got a fifteen quid parcel from Japan this morning and no one was bothered. Ditto I get a pile of silage wrap from the state. I suspect the same will happen in Rossendale, or Rannoch moor post FREEEEDOOM. If anyone is in doubt look at British trade during the Hundred years war. Buyer collects.
 
The number of Irishmen or men with Ireland connections involved in the middle and upper echelons during the colonial wars is quite impressive.

I am thinking, off the top of my head, of Doulgas Duff, Henry Tudor, and Charles Tegart - and the seven hundred 'tans and Auxies' that wnt direct to Palestine to join them.
Thread drift//

Where they developed a fearsome reputation, because of their brutal methods. The last Inspector General of Police in Palestine was a former Royal Marine colonel, a William Nicholl Gray, who then went to Malaya and tried similar brutal methods, with no success. Templer sacked him in 1952, with Montgomery commenting 'Never trust a man who has spent more than two years on the Equator". Templer pioneered the 'Hearts and Minds' approach (devised by his DOps predecessor Harold Briggs). The term was used in the eponymous plan, and drawn from the UN Universal Declaration.

Who said that Shrivenham was a waste of time, eh?

//Thread drift
 
I'll go out on a whim here as a member of the Unionist community in NI.

This place would go absolutely fcuking bonkers, if there was a threat of a United Ireland.
Picture the scale of violence from Republican quarters in the early 1970's and then throw in a scathing Unionist community around NI, prepared to go to the same levels of violence as the Republican community at the start of the troubles and you'd probably get close to how it would look.
Limb ?
 
Damm you for starting this interesting (mercifully short, so far) thread… I have a funeral to go to shortly, and this is detaining me overlong in the bath…
Ironically, a west of Scotland fellow who was quite politically active, very loyalist in his outlook… 53, overweight, died of a Stroke.

Turns out, his elder brother – who did a very good eulogy – was 24 years a Royal Marine.
 
As was the attack in North Belfast which killed 3 Protestants earlier in the evening after the ambush on the Orange parade past Ardoyne.

For all the claims of an armed Loyalist assault that night on the Short Strand..they barely mustered to gather a Mauser rifle from 1914 to fire back towards St Matthews chapel, after McKee, McIlhone and Dennis Donaldson had started firing on the crowd on the Lower Newtonards Rd and killed Jimmy McCurrie and Robert McNeill, after the parade was attacked coming back home that night.
Wee Denis !?
 

Latest Threads

Top