Could Republican and Loyalist terrorism be contained, if Sinn Fein pushed for unification?

Didn't CCB come from a staunch Republican background and then swung the other way as he got older. By the time he karked it he was almost a paid up member of the Orange Lodge.
CCOB was certainly from Republican aristocracy as his family on both sides were actively involved in the National Cause. He also worked as a young diplomat for the Irish government's anti-partition campaign in the 50s under Dev.

He joined Labour and was very prominent in Irish leftist circles in the 60s and recognised from a very early stage the danger of the Provos and was to the forefront in actions against them, initiating Section 31. The Provos absolutely hated him beyond any Unionist politician in the North. In later years he joined Bob McCartney's Unionist party.

Speaking of the Orange in 1971 he was in Derry to watch the Apprentice Boys and was wandering around the field at St Columb's Park went he was identified as a southern Fenian and beaten up.

You can always rely on the Prods to shoot themselves in the foot when it comes to promotion and propaganda.
 
Did the attitude in the South towards the IRA depend on wether the Anti Treaty Party or the Pro Treaty Party was in charge. I liked that nice Bertie Ahern. He reminded me a bit of Father Ted.
Yes, there is no doubt where Haughey's sympathies lay, although he never forgave the hunger strikers who stood for election in 1981 for depriving him of his majority and it was that summer in which the Gardai beat the living shite out of hunger strike protesters outside the British embassy in Dublin, a truly astonishing hiding they got, to the extent of being chased onto the railway tracks to get a thumping in between the passing trains.

And let's not forget it was that nice kindly, sympathetic Garret Fitzgerald who inveigled the Blessed Margaret to sign the AIA.
 
I'd remembered reading about the emergency powers coming in after the UVF bombed Dublin.
It was only around about the time that Larry Marley and Co were buried, that the RUC started to crack down on IRA show of strengths at Republican funerals, from what I've heard, maybe there was action taken earlier? Again the multi day day stand off with Marleys coffin being allowed onto the streets minus IRA trappings, was late 80's and Thatchers policy of going harder on the Provo's.
The first disruption of a funeral was when the Marines went in against Joe McDonnel's funeral in 1981. After that it calmed down until the mid-80s when the whole thing ratcheted up. I well recall watching the aggro surrounding Kieran Fleming's funeral shortly before Christmas 1984, it was a running battle the length of the route from Gobnascale in the Waterside all the way across the bridge to almost the City Cemetery, truncheons, fists and baton rounds fired at point blank range.

By 1987 and Lenny Marley it had become the battle of the funerals and I suspect that it was this that was the motivation behind the Enniskillen bomb, "if you won't let us honour our dead, well..." but given the circumstances that occurred the Provos let the issue drop.
 
I'd value opinion on whether our SyF could contain a Republican and/or Loyalist uprising. I think we've determined that the Loyalists would struggle to coherently tie their shoe laces in the morning and the Republicans would have both logistical issues and skills fade, but if widespread rioting, for example, broke out in NI - could it be contained? Do the Army srill do extensive public order training?
The PSNI could handle public order and would be backed up by support from Mainland forces I think. They are well supplied with riot gear, armoured Land Rovers and water cannon. Although if it was restricted to specific locations (Bogside comes to mind) I suspect the PSNI would do what they usually do these days and simply ignore it.
 
I'd value opinion on whether our SyF could contain a Republican and/or Loyalist uprising. I think we've determined that the Loyalists would struggle to coherently tie their shoe laces in the morning and the Republicans would have both logistical issues and skills fade, but if widespread rioting, for example, broke out in NI - could it be contained? Do the Army srill do extensive public order training?
Republicans don't have skills fade..the bombmakers are all still alive and kicking. The dissidents are just henpacked by MI5 and the cops at the minute.
Who would the Loyalist uprising be against? It's not like Unionists are going to head to London on a saunter and target our capital.

I don't believe the PSNI could alone contain widespread rioting on the scale of the Drumcree mid 90's or the Whiterock 2005 riots across the whole of the province over a prolonged period.
The flag protests from a few years ago had the PSNI stretched and I wouldn't say the rioting over those months was as serious as I've seen in the past.
 
If Sinn Fein managed to push the reunifcation agenda in the Republic (see my OP) I can't imagine that the Loyalists would sit around and say 'fair's fair', especially if there was a political mood in London to seek an accommodation with Dublin o er the common border issue.
 
The PSNI could handle public order and would be backed up by support from Mainland forces I think. They are well supplied with riot gear, armoured Land Rovers and water cannon. Although if it was restricted to specific locations (Bogside comes to mind) I suspect the PSNI would do what they usually do these days and simply ignore it.
There's no way the PSNI could handle serious public disorder across multiple locations in NI.
I remember vividly the amount of manpower poured into Belfast in 2001/2002 for the rioting at the flashpoints at Cluan Place, Ardoyne, the Whitewell Rd, Alliance Avenue etc and that was only possible because of the resident battalions to support the PSNI, plus you still had the Home Service RIR.
 
If Sinn Fein managed to push the reunifcation agenda in the Republic (see my OP) I can't imagine that the Loyalists would sit around and say 'fair's fair', especially if there was a political mood in London to seek an accommodation with Dublin o er the common border issue.
Loyalism still isn't going to rise up against the British state.
 
Law and order won!
Yes the greater good won.

The Provisional IRA not only disarmed their weapons to a foreign entity, but took up power within the British political system, administering British law.

I'd say Loyalism achieved their aim.
 
How if SF have senior seats in Stormont?
Administering British legislation in the state they vowed to pull down. I'd say they lost comprehensively.
 
I don't believe the PSNI could alone contain widespread rioting on the scale of the Drumcree mid 90's or the Whiterock 2005 riots across the whole of the province over a prolonged period.
The flag protests from a few years ago had the PSNI stretched and I wouldn't say the rioting over those months was as serious as I've seen in the past.
During Whiterock II in 2005 there were over 1,000 cops involved in the initial operation and almost the same number of soldiers. We were part of the Brigade Reserve and we had all been deployed by 1800. There were incidents later that night and the next night that weren't responded to at all because there was no-one left to go. That incident was pretty much restricted to the North East, it didn't go NI wide like the 90's Drumcree protests did.

Since then the number of TSGs has been almost halved and the number of Level 2 units has been halved. I am not sure how many units were brought over from the Mainland for the Twelfth a few years ago (@wetsmonkey ?) but I don't think there were 1,000 of them.
 
During Whiterock II in 2005 there were over 1,000 cops involved in the initial operation and almost the same number of soldiers. We were part of the Brigade Reserve and we had all been deployed by 1800. There were incidents later that night and the next night that weren't responded to at all because there was no-one left to go. That incident was pretty much restricted to the North East, it didn't go NI wide like the 90's Drumcree protests did.

Since then the number of TSGs has been almost halved and the number of Level 2 units has been halved. I am not sure how many units were brought over from the Mainland for the Twelfth a few years ago (@wetsmonkey ?) but I don't think there were 1,000 of them.
That's what I meant Legz. If the scale of rioting seen during Whiterock 2005 or even 2001 in Belfasts flashpoints, was to go NI wide, the PSNI would never be able to cope.

How fast realistically could the mainland cops be called over at short notice. The 12th can always be planned for every year, just pull out the file on Ardoyne and East Belfast.

I remember the mainland cops in East Belfast on riot duty a few years back on the Albertbridge Rd/Mountpottinger Rd at the Short Strand and I wondered what their procedure was for an attack on them by an armed gunman?

630 mainland officers were deployed in NI in 2014, that's the last I can find on google, but largely confined to less sensitive area's.
 
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