could our immigration service be this hopeless?

Discussion in 'The NAAFI Bar' started by brighton hippy, Mar 8, 2010.

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  1. homeoffice letter refusing an ivory coast Asylum seeker

    "You claim that you could not relocate to the area where your parents
    are living as you fear attacks from guerrillas. However, information
    from the World Wide Fund for nature confirms that guerrillas (sic) are
    not native to that part of the country and in any event there are few
    recorded incidents of primates attacking humans unless their natural
    habitat is disturbed or their young threatened".

    they could'nt be this stupid surely :?
  2. My first instinct was to call wah as well, but then I thought back to various dealings I've had with the incompetent cnuts we employ as ECOs and realised that it could easily be true.

    I've had a Canadian student name of McGuire who was coming to study a Masters in English Literature refused a student visa because she hadn't supplied proof of English proficiency. They. Are. Shocking.
  3. Think Jarrod called wah in the fact it's a blatantly stupid and obvious question, rather than it being a wind up 8O
  4. I've no dramas with that... how many false unis and similar are about, or maybe she just got on the course and would 'drop out' of both Uni and sight of our immigration services.

    Besides... she could be francophile :D
  5. Francophone.

    I wouldn't take any foreign holidays chocolate UK could be problematic!
  6. :D

    Could have sworn they said phile.... do postings count for re-entering?
  7. I took it as a rare bit of humour on the part of some junior civil servant.

    Full marks for imaginative grounds for refusal. Makes a change from letting any bugger stay for the most spurious of reasons.
  8. In the first place, we're hardly a false University - unless we've managed to successfully bluff our way for more centuries than the UK has been in existence.

    In the second, this is a Postgraduate qualification in English Literature and a command of the language is ordinarily thought to be a handy thing to have when dissecting what a person meant in their writings even at secondary level.

    In the third, she's a Canadian and that's not exactly a high-threat country requiring extra-extra-super-dooper precautions. Nor is her family background indicative of anything other than an Anglophone education. It might even get her the right of abode under an Ancestry Visa should she be so minded.

    In the fourth, her UG degree was from an English-medium Canadian university - we can reasonably assume they teach in English to a respectable standard, can we not?

    In the fifth, insisting on a language test for a native English-speaker is both bone, unnecessary and makes the UK look ridiculous.

    In the sixth, asking for an English language test is going to make no difference whatsoever to her likelihood of disappearing off the immigration radar but will make a significant difference to the chances of her fucking off to a country that isn't run by idiots.

    In the seventh place, under the PBS guidelines it isn't up to the Entry Clearance Officer to judge the likelihood of a student not completing their studies; that's what Compliance Monitoring by the institution is for.

    It was a shite call made by a moron.

    Education and Skills is one of the precious, dwindling few export sectors the UK still has that is genuinely world-beating and it contributes a massive amount to the UK economy directly and an even more humungous amount indirectly. International students alone contribute around £2.50 to the wider economy for every pound spent directly on fees. And semi-trained ersatz-chimps like this are on the verge of throwing it out the window because they can't be arrsed firing up two braincells in rapid succession.

    If they can't spot something as simple as there being no need for a born-and-bred Canadian to take an IELTS, what chance do they have of spotting a genuine bad guy?
  9. After the story of the immigration officers singing "Umbongo, Umbongo, they kill them in to Congo" & making the victims of inter-tribal genocide act out killings nothing would surprise me...
  10. Is she fit?
  11. smartas, I can see your points. And I can sympathise... however, when we even have Americans popping over for a bit of healthcare tourism, where do we draw the line?

    Saying your Uni is old hardly gives it the right to decide who can come in to our country and study.

    And if she was such a good student of English, surely she'd have read the form and provided the neccesary paperwork.

    Our immigration barriers seem to be pretty porus at teh best of times, so surely a robust, uniform approach is the way ahead.

    vvaannmmaann, surely the question should be... "does she put out?"
  13. Command_doh

    Command_doh LE Book Reviewer

    Juxtapose this statement with

    If they can't now judge credibility because the decision making process is taken out of their hands and has been replaced by a box ticking exercise installed by senior civil servants at the behest of Ministers, how are they morons?

    Not really an informed statement here. On more than one count. well off the mark in fact. You clearly aren't aware of the significant number of North American's who come here daily seeking jobs then? Or free health care?

    And you are aware of the fact that and ancestral visa and a right of abode are completely different things and are in no way compatible?

    Not really, when you have Commonwealth countries who are designated as being English speakers not being able to speak or read English. Very frequent occurrence this.

    Whilst PBS in relation to education is pretty obviously failing, one of the most troubling areas of it placing trust in Educational establishments to issue 'guarantee letters'. In essence, it confers almost the power to issue a visa to people who have their bank balances, profit margins and pension plans firmly in their interest as opposed to the countries. As we speak, hundreds and hundreds of ostensibly credible educational institutions are being monitored to see how closely they ensure the students they dish out offer letters to actually have any intention of turning up on their courses.

    I understand there is a very 'laid back attitude' in College/University/Higher educational establishments when they are challenged over the ration of genuine to bogus students. Removing their 'trusted partner' status hasn't yet proved a deterrent for a lot I understand.
  14. You're missing the point: it was NOT required paperwork in her case, for the reasons I laid out. It was merely asked for by some clown on a power trip who didn't even know his own job.

    It's not an isolated incident either. From the BUILA forum, I've read of an ECO refusing a student on the grounds that they didn't have sufficient funds in their bank account for studies, even though they could prove they were in receipt of an all-expenses paid scholarship from the FCO; a student who pointed out that he shouldn't have been refused for lacking ATAS clearance because his subject was explicitly mentioned on the FCO website as not needing ATAS clearance - then being told to go and get a letter from the FCO certifying that he didn't need it despite the self-same website saying that the FCO would not provide confirmation in the negative; from my own personal experience, a student was refused because although their parents were wealthy businesspeople holding more than adequate funds for more than long enough to qualify, the ECO did not believe they were going to use it for their child's education. Apart from the question of how the Hell do they prove that?, there's the question of how the Hell could he possibly have come to that conclusion in the 30 seconds on the interview?

    I don't have a problem with strict rules because they help me in my job. I like knowing exactly where I stand. I do have a major problem with badly-trained, inexperienced and out-and-out idiotic people making shit up as they go along.
  15. My local Uni imports Chinese students by the hundreds. They arrive 3 months early and attend English classes all through the summer, seems to work. I think they should apply the must have adequate English skills to our own students, few of them seem to attain adequate levels of competency from my experience.