Corrupt Politicians!

[geo7863]

I am 45 years old, not really that interested in Politics but deeply dissapointed with Politicians, havent lived in the UK for a long part of my life but with the bad press politicians have had the last few years I was wondering...was it always like this?

we moved back to the Uk in 76 when my dad left the Army, I was just a nipper but remember Harold Wilson...only becuase Mike Yarwood did him, and I remember some sort of news about him giving awards to his secretary and the guy that made his mackintoshes.. Dont remember much about Jim Callagan (Callahan??) except that Mike yarwood did him as well!

I remember some sort of sexual sleaze with Jeremy Thorpe a liberal MP but nothing else really.

Then came Maggie..... as a young chap living through the sh1tstorm that was trades unions striking all the time, flying pickets and the winter of discontent...she was a Hero who sorted the country out (before meglomania creeped in in the late 80's)...once again all I can remember is the odd sexual sleaze thing, MP's found hanging with oranges in their gobs wearing the full webbing, Mps getting involved in gay 'things' on Clapham common etc etc.

But I can never remember anything about outright lies and downright Corruption until Tony Blair got in! and this is all we seem to have got from the Politicians ever since right up to now!

Now I am guessing that this is like murder and street gangs and knife crime etc etc where we all seem to assume that its worse now than it ever was...but which just isnt true as these things have always been around and in much the same prevelance....so...

Can the (even) older ones amongst us remember real corruption sleaze and downright unsavouriness in Politicians from the days of my youth? (if you are younger than 45 dont bother posting on here as you didnt 'live it' just as I didnt!)

 

[jonwilly]

I do think the problem is caused by the rise of the Professional Politician.
When I was a lad most Politicians had a life in Industry, Unions coming up from the bottom,ex Military and folk who just drifted in becoming PM where rare.
Now it seems Uni, Talent spotted by Party, Party job on leaving , safe seat found and Rapid promotion to the top before they have a chance to be caught being a bad Boy.
I still remember Selwin Lloyd offering to resign over Suez, last time anyone offered to resign I do believed.
One story that has always interested me is the claim that Brown was a Multi millionaire before he left No 10.

john

 

[lsquared]

I think the two posts above are hugely interesting.

In days of yore, MPs were most likely to be men and women (not many I admit) who had developed careers well away from politics. These 'careers' spanned the whole spectrum from merchant bankers to coal miners and from bus drivers to lawyers. The selection of candidates was invariably done at local level, with Party HQ keeping its proboscis well out of the procedure.

Cabinet government meant government BY the cabinet and not by a small and select gang of slime-balls, mostly unelected, lounging on sofas and encouraging each other to greater excesses of misguided action.

Additionally, The House of Lords had REAL PEERS in it. Men born to lead and govern and born to accept responsibility and care for those who worked for them and ran their estates et cetera. These peers were chosen by God or Fate if you prefer, and not by 'here today, gone tomorrow' politicians. This state of affairs was weakened and ultimately ruined firstly by the introduction of Life Peers and secondly by the destruction of The House of Lords by the intellectually challenged grinning 'spiv' Blair. As with his illegal invasion of Iraq, he had not an inkling of what he would do after the invasion and after the destruction of The House of Lards.

'geo's' quest to discover 'corrupt' politicians need stray no further than a study of this appalling man and his actions during ten years spent destroying the nation.

'jonwilly' is spot on when he says that nowadays politicians are talent spotted at university - mainly Oxford or Cambridge for the top level. (Brown was an exception. The only university educated prime minister EVER not to have attended either Oxford or Cambridge. Great success was he not?)

The 'front benches' of both sides of The House of Commons is packed with men and women who have never had a real job outside politics. (Giving birth and bringing up a child or children is a 'real job'.)

In the 'old days' there were 'naughty' politicians. The naughtiness was largely due to an inability to keep their trousers on, but occasionally there were other reasons.

In my lifetime (I am 70) there has never been the wholesale corruption and sleazy behaviour that 'geo' has witnessed as he became an adult. This regrettable trend is covers all parties although it has to be said that Blair's administration is probably the 'Manchester United' of this matter.

 

[eodmatt]

It's a large part of the reason I don't live in UK any more. At least here in Thailand you can bribe just about anyone - equal opportunity bribery, so to speak. But in UK it seems to be a bit too rife in the government, the membership of which which passes laws against it for the rest of us.

 

[DemsMaShoes]

.........................Can the (even) older ones amongst us remember real corruption sleaze and downright unsavouriness in Politicians from the days of my youth? (if you are younger than 45 dont bother posting on here as you didnt 'live it' just as I didnt!)

I don't remember dates but the John Profumo scandal rings a bell. Involvement with "ladies of easy virtue" ( Keeler, Rice-Davies ) and dodgy Russians. Got caught, apologised and took the Chiltern Hundreds. A man of honour.

 

[geo7863]

Yep sort of confirms it so far, any scandals that I remember all involved politicos and their 'johnsons'.

Jonwilly last time I remember a politician offering to resign was John Nott over the Falkands...because he didnt see the War coming! can you imagine any of the shower we have in power (have had in power over the last 13 years) doing that now? They seem to cling on to their positions and leave the nastiest of tastes on the palate (Mandleson for example)!

I did start a thread on Politicians back-peddleing...did Enoch ever back pedal over his famous rivers of blood speech? we just seem to have the most insidious slimeballs in the political world now...I reckon the 'mother of parliaments' is racking up a good old RPM in her grave!

It also seems that the Sex Pistols slogan can be applied (slighty altered)...... 'never trust a student!'

 

[ALVIN]

Today politicians are educated liers and thieves, how else do you think 65% of them became multi millionaires ?? Not by being honest, that's for sure!

Conmen and bad bastards the lot of them.

Those with the biggest smiles have the biggest daggers behind their backs!

You still wondering why our once great country is now all screwed up ??

 

[cernunnos]

There are only two types of politician; there are those who can't be trusted and there are the dead ones. I prefer them dead.

 

[DavidBOC]

I think the two posts above are hugely interested.

In days of yore, MPs were most likely to be men and women (not many I admit) who had developed careers well away from politics. These 'careers' spanned the whole spectrum from merchant bankers to coal miners and from bus drivers to lawyers. The selection of candidates was invariably done at local level, with Party HQ keeping its proboscis well out of the procedure.

Cabinet government meant government BY the cabinet and not by a small and select gang of slime-balls, mostly unelected, lounging on sofas and encouraging each other to greater excesses of misguided action.

Additionally, The House of Lords had REAL PEERS in it. Men born to lead and govern and born to accept responsibility and care for those who worked for them and ran their estates et cetera. These peers were chosen by God or Fate if you prefer, and not by 'here today, gone tomorrow' politicians. This state of affairs was weakened and ultimately ruined firstly by the introduction of Life Peers and secondly by the destruction of The House of Lords by the intellectually challenged grinning 'spiv' Blair. As with his illegal invasion of Iraq, he had not an inkling of what he would do after the invasion and after the destruction of The House of Lards.

'geo's' quest to discover 'corrupt' politicians need stray no further than a study of this appalling man and his actions during ten years spent destroying the nation.

'jonwilly' is spot on when he says that nowadays politicians are talent spotted at university - mainly Oxford or Cambridge for the top level. (Brown was an exception. The only university educated prime minister EVER not to have attended either Oxford or Cambridge. Great success was he not?)

The 'front benches' of both sides of The House of Commons is packed with men and women who have never had a real job outside politics. (Giving birth and bringing up a child or children is a 'real job'.)

In the 'old days' there were 'naughty' politicians. The naughtiness was largely due to an inability to keep their trousers on, but occasionally there were other reasons.

In my lifetime (I am 70) there has never been the wholesale corruption and sleazy behaviour that 'geo' has witnessed as he became an adult. This regrettable trend is covers all parties although it has to be said that Blair's administration is probably the 'Manchester United' of this matter.

A well written and well thought out post and I agree completely.

The same situation prevails here in the US, Politicians used to be men and women who had held real jobs, owned real companies that actually made useful things and owned farms that produced real food. Often it was a bit of a hardship to hold office. Nowadays politicians on both sides of the pond consider politics a career and are wholly subservient to the unions, corporations and special interest groups that contribute to their cause. They stay in session forever and for any problem propose new laws without trying to think how existing laws could be made to work. As an example my rep in the state legislature used to be a farmer whose family had farmed the same land for 350 years. He was chair of the agriculture committee. He died, farm was sold off for McMansion building and his replacement is a pleasant young man whose only job between uni and the state house was working for a Democraic Party research group.

I saw one big advantage to your house of lords. They were a random selection of citizens who could vote however they thought best without having to kiss the arse of unions, corporate donors or anyone else. Granted, most were wealthier than average but they has businesses or farms and knew the value of a pound.

Sometimes in moments of despair, which are frequent now that The Chosen One is our Beloved Leader, if find myself agreeing with the American political philosopher and humo(u)rist P.J. O'Rourke who once said that we should throw out all 435 members of congress and replace them by having the Washington DC police round up the first 435 prostitutes and pimps they could find. The result would be a congress with higher moral standards and a better understanding of the value of a dollar.

 

[Drlligaf]

There are only two types of politician; there are those who can't be trusted and there are the dead ones. I prefer them dead.

Given that Cernunnos is a hunter, the above statement has interesting possibilities. I do however agree with his idea.

 

[undervalued]

So do dishonest people become politicians, or does politics make people dishonest?

 

[cernunnos]

There are only two types of politician; there are those who can't be trusted and there are the dead ones. I prefer them dead.

Given that Cernunnos is a hunter, the above statement has interesting possibilities. I do however agree with his idea.

I usually only shoot stuff which I intend to eat, vermin excepted. Now they do qualify as vermin but does anyone have a decent recipie for politician?

 

[cernunnos]

So do dishonest people become politicians, or does politics make people dishonest?

As I see it, people become politicians, why ever would politics make them honest? It's all a matter of human nature.

 

[Sympathetic_Reaction]

I always thought the best demonstration of this was the simple question:

Would you trust your local MP to babysit your kids or hold your life savings?

if not then why the hell are they voted in?

S_R

 

[lsquared]

I always thought the best demonstration of this was the simple question:

Would you trust your local MP to babysit your kids or hold your life savings?

if not then why the hell are they voted in?

S_R

What an interesting post and idea.

I am very, very lucky in that I would let my MP babysit and would trust her with my savings. Maybe she is one in 650!

Her name: Justine Greening. Her Constituency: Putney.

I/We am/are lucky to have her as my/our MP.

PS: Yes, she is pretty too!

 

[Drlligaf]

SR, I strongly suspect that a lot of voters just do not think when making their cross on the ballot papers. Or how else does anyone explain how Labour managed to stay in so long?
Not that I am overly fond of their succesors.

It is noticeable in Germany that a similar situation exists as regards to politicians. They are also strongly career orientated, the needs of the people come a very poor second. The current bunch are so colourless and uninspiring that lots of people do not vote, they just cannot decide which is the lesser of the various evils on offer. Corruption is perhaps not as bad here as in Britain but a few have had their noses a bit too deep in the trough

 

[bigjimdangley]

Yep sort of confirms it so far, any scandals that I remember all involved politicos and their 'johnsons'.

Jonwilly last time I remember a politician offering to resign was John Nott over the Falkands...because he didnt see the War coming! can you imagine any of the shower we have in power (have had in power over the last 13 years) doing that now? They seem to cling on to their positions and leave the nastiest of tastes on the palate (Mandleson for example)!

I did start a thread on Politicians back-peddleing...did Enoch ever back pedal over his famous rivers of blood speech? we just seem to have the most insidious slimeballs in the political world now...I reckon the 'mother of parliaments' is racking up a good old RPM in her grave!

It also seems that the Sex Pistols slogan can be applied (slighty altered)...... 'never trust a student!'

Totally missed out John Major and all the scandal involved with his cabinet-he was ****ing Edwina Curry! Geoffrey Archer FFS!

Trade unions were corrupt and too strong in the 80's-However Thatcher's government managed to destroy all heavy industries in this country, wrecking employment for entire communities. 6 million unemployed was considered acceptable.Ruthless bitch.

John Knott had also almost closed a deal to sell the Ark Royal- with the backing of his cabinet remember? The week after the Argies invaded? Obviously not ....Thats also a major factor why he offered to resign dontyathink.....

Don't get me wrong- There's a special place in hell for Blair. A lot of his original cabinet resigned when the decision t invade Iraq was made (Robin Cook-force for good speech-no? Thought you wouldnt remember...).

Blair got in off the back of the death of the Labour leader John Smith who actually won the election with the policies Blair inherited and then dismantled-but I wouldnt expect you too remember that either.

You look at Blair/Labour in a bad light. I'd like to re start this thread when That Etonian Prick has been in power for the same ammount of time-not that he will. I don't reckon he'll last the year. There's only so far a gvmt can go blaming its predecessors' until you realise that they're just as bad. Worse, unless of course you earn over 100k or are in fact an MP.

Sorry about the rant-but these threads gimmie a headeache!

 

[BrandySoured]

PS: Yes, she is pretty too!

If having all your own teeth is pretty?

 

[BrandySoured]

Totally missed out John Major and all the scandal involved with his cabinet-he was ****ing Edwina Curry! Geoffrey Archer FFS!

Trade unions were corrupt and too strong in the 80's-However Thatcher's government managed to destroy all heavy industries in this country, wrecking employment for entire communities. 6 million unemployed was considered acceptable.Ruthless bitch.

John Knott had also almost closed a deal to sell the Ark Royal- with the backing of his cabinet remember? The week after the Argies invaded? Obviously not ....Thats also a major factor why he offered to resign dontyathink.....

Don't get me wrong- There's a special place in hell for Blair. A lot of his original cabinet resigned when the decision t invade Iraq was made (Robin Cook-force for good speech-no? Thought you wouldnt remember...).

Blair got in off the back of the death of the Labour leader John Smith who actually won the election with the policies Blair inherited and then dismantled-but I wouldnt expect you too remember that either.

You look at Blair/Labour in a bad light. I'd like to re start this thread when That Etonian Prick has been in power for the same ammount of time-not that he will. I don't reckon he'll last the year. There's only so far a gvmt can go blaming its predecessors' until you realise that they're just as bad. Worse, unless of course you earn over 100k or are in fact an MP.

Sorry about the rant-but these threads gimmie a headeache!

I get your points BJD but a lot of ARRSEers miss the good old days when all you had to do was tug-the-forelock and you got a penny from yer betters.

Blinkers are good for edgy horses, not for humans.

 

[ALVIN]

I usually only shoot stuff which I intend to eat, vermin excepted. Now they do qualify as vermin but does anyone have a decent recipie for politician?

Yes i have the perfect solution.

Send them all to Porton Down to be fully experimented on as human Guinea pigs.

Thats what the sons of bitches did to our brave service people.

Cure for the common cold my arrse !