correct if wrong, revision.... 4 rules of marksmanship

#1
1. position and hold must be firm enough to support the weapon.
2. the weapon must natuarly at the target without any undue physical effort.
3. the aim sight / aim picture (if usiung SUSAT) must be correct.
4. the shot must be followed through without any undue disturbance to the firing position.

apart from the grammar mark me.....
 
#2
gah123 said:
1. position and hold must be firm enough to support the weapon.
2. the weapon must natuarly at the target without any undue physical effort.
3. the aim sight / aim picture (if usiung SUSAT) must be correct.
4. the shot must be followed through without any undue disturbance to the firing position.

apart from the grammar mark me.....
Site picture must be correct regardless of sight type. SUSAT and Iron sights tend to promote different faults in my experience but if you want to shoot well then sight picture must be correct.

Edited for carelessly missing a word.
 
#5
gah123 said:
1. position and hold must be firm enough to support the weapon.
2. the weapon must natuarly at the target without any undue physical effort.
3. the aim sight / aim picture (if usiung SUSAT) must be correct.
4. the shot must be followed through without any undue disturbance to the firing position.

apart from the grammar mark me.....
I assume the missing word is point...
 
#8
1. The weapon should point naturally at the target without and undue physical effort
2. The position and hold must be firm enough to support the weapon
3. Sight picture and sight alignment should be correct
4.The shot should be released and followed through without any undue disturbance to the position

Pretty much word for word that, the correct release of the shot is one of the most important factors in good shooting, you could get all the others right, but you snatch that trigger and foul up the release, your shooting will suffer.
 
#9
307 said:
1. The weapon should point naturally at the target without and undue physical effort
2. The position and hold must be firm enough to support the weapon
3. Sight picture and sight alignment should be correct
4.The shot should be released and followed through without any undue disturbance to the position

Pretty much word for word that, the correct release of the shot is one of the most important factors in good shooting, you could get all the others right, but you snatch that trigger and foul up the release, your shooting will suffer.
any undue physical effort.

For should read must I was always taught and have taught.
 
#10
Oh my God,Get a life
I,ve taught Recruits,and sprog Officers for about 10 years.
Guys.....how many times have we been on the range and some muppet is just a "natural"
does you nut right in......all that teachin gone to waste!
Still nice to see it!
If you a Pish shot the system will help you.....
but some are just good..
In my outfit too many hunters i think! LOL
Ah well...
 
G

Goku

Guest
#11
gah it’s not important to know the marksmanship principles word for word, what is important is for you to be able to understand and apply them.
No need to be **** about it.
 
#12
You are Of course Correct old chap!
But as so often too many know the PAM 6 but very few can covert this to the
Info to get rounds on CZP and far too many follow a poor shot all over the screen !
you have to admit the Marvel of AMS as an aid to Train the Battle shot!
All ranges should be converted as soon as possible.
Every time we go to use one of the three in our neck of the woods they are over booked.
(Even by the Navy outfit!)
 
#13
While it is good to have a grasp of the marksmanship Principles. I believe that people too much time ensuring, that recruits spout them out word for word. Instead of confirming that they understand what the principle entails and how to achieve it. This is where the DCCT is an excellent aid to confirming SAA Lessons 5&6.


Tartan, Howdy Doody. How's things over in Fraggle Rock. :lol:

Do'nt want to be picky, but it's Pam 5 Now. I'll get martin to give you an update. 8O

:lol: :lol: :lol:
 
#14
Breathing is very important too. Well it makes a difference on the range, however I would guess that in battle, it would be impossible to apply.

I reduced my grouping by about a third as soon as I mastered the pre breathing and empty lung technique.
 
#17
Tartan_Ninja said:
Oh my God,Get a life
I,ve taught Recruits,and sprog Officers for about 10 years.
Guys.....how many times have we been on the range and some muppet is just a "natural"
does you nut right in......all that teachin gone to waste!
Still nice to see it!
If you a Pish shot the system will help you.....
but some are just good..
In my outfit too many hunters i think! LOL
Ah well...
Yeah but naturals are made better by applying these principles... fact. The marksmanship principles dont give specifics. They dont tell you how to hold a weapon where to point it, how to look through the sights or how to operate the trigger. That comes in from Coaching. I have never met a sniper/Sharpshooter who doesn't live by the big 4 when firing any weapon system and from my own personal experience they got me from being a good shot at Bn level to being sent to Bisley!
 
#18
I have to live by them too,
As I am not Natual Shot
But by my own experiences and from the Unit that clears up a lot of the silver wear at Bisley most years (TA)
And Doing Certain Courses in Brecon.
Crow Your not Wrong, nor was I Saying the 4 are wrong,But at the standard of teaching them in most units leave a lot to be desired.
And as I have seen there is always the Odd Natural shot still to be found!
How many times are essential stepping shoots/DCCT being bypassed because of Time & lack of Ranges/DCCT?
Bearing in mind, I Was "Half Cut" at the time of my rant...so not one of my best Posts!
And the point (and the Key Board) were a bit Blurred!
So Sorry for the Rant.....
 
#19
The principles are all well and good for joe blogs who needs shooting to be "programmed in" and be average.
I have always gone on the idea that to be a really good competetive shot, its 90% natural ability, and 10% practice (to learn a shoot)

Anyone can and should improve using these principles, but its their application that needs to be taught and why they work. Not the "cos they do" approach.

Personally I have been competition shooting for about 17 years from cadets through University (pre firearms law changes) to TA with ranges upt 1100 meters. Windage - hell yeah.

The best advice I can offer for anyone wishing to shoot a little better:

Weapon naturally at target. Take up a natural prone position pointing at your target. Now close your eyes, take 3 breaths and return to the point of breath where you were lined up on target. Where are you aiming now? Adjust body position about the belt pivot for left to right, and adjust fowards and backwards on elbows for elevation. Retry the breathing with eyes closed - where are you now? If you are bang on - then thats your natural without undue effort at target. If not, re-adjust.

Breathing - i go for a full breath in then release a little air. Some prefer a full outbreath. Personal pref in my opinion. Its a comfort thing.
If you feel like its taken too long to get the right sight alignment, stop, and take a few breaths and start again. A full in or a full out breath I dont think works as your body may make a natural gasp or exhale when you dont want it to.

Sight alignment. Same principle for iron and SUSAT. With SUSAT its key to watch the cant of the pointer. Ensure its vertical. Check against a fixed line on the range - red flag pole for example so you know what it should look like.

Release of shot - squeze the trigger. Apply continual pressure until it goes bang. Keep the pressue applied all the way through the shot and beyond its release. The actual bang should come as a relative "suprise".

Of course, zeroing correctly you have time to perfect this. In competition, you have less time to react and often from other positions. 3 second exposure at 200 meters kneeling. Gah. However, the natural point at target can be obtained before the shoot start usually by a quick rehearsal before it begins in whatever position the shoot is due in. Standing, kneeling, sitting can usually all be rehearsed on your lane target when they are shown. And the release of shot will be faster than a zero shoot. But still not a snatch.

Breathing cant really be rehearsed as the exposures are usually random in nature and short on up time. However, if the other factors are right and you are well zeroed, you should get a fall when hit.

Position and hold are again personal preference and depend on physical build. Taller shooters I have often seen with their left hand and fingers wrapped round the front of the hand guard and barrel. Some utilise the sling underwrapped through the left arm, some use the left ammo puch as an elbow rest when standing. Some use the butt tucked into their right shoulder webbing strap. My advice - try everything when on a zero range to see what works for you - its the only way to know.

The thing with your average range weekend - lack of knowledgable instructors with time to spend coaching individuals. And you all to often often find a few good natual shots/coaches amongst your unit who's skill set is never utilised over SAA and RMQ staff who cant hit a broadside of a barn door at 25m but have done the course...
 
#20
smudger404 said:
The principles are all well and good for joe blogs who needs shooting to be "programmed in" and be average.
I have always gone on the idea that to be a really good competetive shot, its 90% natural ability, and 10% practice (to learn a shoot)
I'd beg to differ. Yes, natural ability will help people to start faster, and maybe be "good enough" in APWT terms, but if you want to be really good, it's practice, practice, practice.

Certainly Malcolm Cooper (two Olympic Golds, World champion, European champion, designed the L96, etc, etc, still held in reverence twenty years on) wasn't a "natural".

So, everyone out there - don't worry if you're sh*t right now, just work hard at using the chances you get (and pray for good coaches)

smudger404 said:
Anyone can and should improve using these principles, but its their application that needs to be taught and why they work. Not the "cos they do" approach.... <snip good advice> ... The thing with your average range weekend - lack of knowledgable instructors with time to spend coaching individuals. And you all to often often find a few good natual shots/coaches amongst your unit who's skill set is never utilised over SAA and RMQ staff who cant hit a broadside of a barn door at 25m but have done the course...
Agreed on all of the above... Mind you, it's my hobbyhorse too, I tend to trap people in a room and force them to listen to a short "principles of marksmanship" chat, before dragging them off to the side of the range for dry firing....
 
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