Corporate Identity and MTP

#1
Whilst sipping my morning coffee and checking out DII, I noticed a picture of the PM in Afghanistan with a sailor. The aforementioned nautical type was in MTP, which got me thinking (dangerous I know) that I remember discussion on here about corporate identity and how annoyed the RN and RAF get to always being labelled as Army, because the civvie press doesn't know any better.

Yes, I understand that there are members of all 3 services outside the wire and in the green zone, but wouldn't it have made sense for the RN and RAF to have kept Desert DPM for behind the wire, thereby identifying themselves as not Army and saved the MTP for when they don't want to stand out?
 
#2
Was MTP a single service project, as MARPAT and the luminous grey stuff was in the US? Or was it Defence wide?

Genuine question - I guess if the Army paid for it alone then they could copyright it and enforce no one else wearing it, as I believe the USMC does with their patterns. But if MoD as a whole has paid for it then I'm guessing it's anyone's to wear, whatever shade of blue. To my mind, if someone needs the kit, they should have it same as anyone else.

Keeping DDPM would have resulted in RN/RAF looking different but it's entirely possible Joe Public still wouldn't realise given the fact that we've just had 9 years of predominantly the Army wearing DDPM in the media. But I reckon not issuing MTP to those who may need it would be a kick in the teeth for them (and work against cam); issuing full sets of DDPM and MTP to other services would just result in duplication of kit, effort and cost that one pattern otherwise cuts down on; and that one cam for all of us isn't a bad way to go (look at the US, every man and his dog have their own different cam). Besides, the DDPM production set-up is probably converted over to MTP now, so unless we want to incur a higher cost building a second production line or changing it over to DDPM every so often, I guess it's easier to stick with one pattern.

I thought issuing mahoosive chest tapes a la 'US ARMY' but with 'ROYAL NAVY' on them was done now anyway, pretty obvious who's who (if you care about such things)?
 

Travelgall

LE
Kit Reviewer
#3
Whilst sipping my morning coffee and checking out DII, I noticed a picture of the PM in Afghanistan with a sailor. The aforementioned nautical type was in MTP, which got me thinking (dangerous I know) that I remember discussion on here about corporate identity and how annoyed the RN and RAF get to always being labelled as Army, because the civvie press doesn't know any better.

Yes, I understand that there are members of all 3 services outside the wire and in the green zone, but wouldn't it have made sense for the RN and RAF to have kept Desert DPM for behind the wire, thereby identifying themselves as not Army and saved the MTP for when they don't want to stand out?
I disagree 100% Everybody should be in MTP, just as the Crabs and Skimmers wore DPM. The Americans have gone for that Tribal Cam Crap and all it means is that they've paid 4x the development costs so when a USAF JTAC gets attached to a Marine unit then Terry shoots him first as his Camouflage is all different. If the RAF has a need to blend in then MTP is fine (RAF Reg), otherwise he can stick to his Grow Bag and white socks. Besides its not as if he won't tell the reporter in question he's an RAF pilot within 4 seconds. Ditto a Sailor, if they ever have a need to blend in then MTP is fine (so that's the Booties then), otherwise they can stick to those nice spiffy white uniforms and white socks to match their Ipods.

And as Voltiguer very handily points out, the Navy wear huge name tags saying "Royal Navy" to enable easier target identification down the Blue Oyster Bar.
 

BuggerAll

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
#4
As I understand it we are fast running out of DDPM anyway. The QM of one of the H14 deploying units told me the other day that originally they were going to get 2 sets of MTP and 3 sets of DDPM. Then it went to 3 to 2 and then 4 to 1 and now they may not get the DDPM at all because theres not much left.
 
#5
Guy/Gall - My personal opinion is that we should all be the same; my point is our cousins in blue whinging that they keep being called pongos.

I don't know who funded the development of MTP, but I get the impression from the PECOC thread that it was the Army. Neither here nor there - I agree - if you need it wear it.

Initially the press still will associate DDPM with Army, but once MTP becomes the norm, in the not too distant future, I can see it becoming less and less of a problem. Despite the worlds biggest TRF (RAF) and writing your service on everything (RN) they still get us confused if we all wear the same uniform.

I'm thinking that the chance of gucci kit has over-ridden their desire for recognition, which undermines their argument.
 
#6
To be fair I've seen a crab asked whats it like in the army even when dressed in blue .
unless their going to wander round dessed as ships and little aeroplanes I don't think its really going to make that much diffrence.
plus it gives something for them to whine about.
also think spam airforce types us army or us marine cam when outside the wires as the airman uniform isn't a camoflauge uniform its corprate image uniform what ever the **** that means.
 

BuggerAll

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
#7
I've been asked for direction by someone who thought I was a policeman. Dressed in woodland CS 95. (I was not the lost soul)
 
#8
I think crab air should be encourged to produce a blue camo pattern with little helicopters and aeroplanes on.
simply for the lols.
or they could wear their range of causal clothing ( it may have been binned as a bad idea but why not remind them)
 
#9
As I understand it we are fast running out of DDPM anyway. The QM of one of the H14 deploying units told me the other day that originally they were going to get 2 sets of MTP and 3 sets of DDPM. Then it went to 3 to 2 and then 4 to 1 and now they may not get the DDPM at all because theres not much left.
Really???? then tell me which unit and UIN I can ship a load off to them!!!
 
#10
To be fair I've seen a crab asked whats it like in the army even when dressed in blue .
Last remembrance Sunday I saw an air cadet mistaken for a parking attendant by a member of the public. The British Public would only recognise Army if they wore battledress and looked like the cast of Dads Army.

The bigger corporate issue is that UK Forces are not wearing a unique cammo pattern anymore. MTP (with slight variations) is multi national. I know DPM wasn't unique to UK Forces, but it was a big part of the 'British' look.
 
#11
Last remembrance Sunday I saw an air cadet mistaken for a parking attendant by a member of the public. The British Public would only recognise Army if they wore battledress and looked like the cast of Dads Army.

ROFL!!The crab rigout is a bit dated and in all honesty its shit! The sooner they big that awful blue grey the better!

The bigger corporate issue is that UK Forces are not wearing a unique cammo pattern anymore. MTP (with slight variations) is multi national. I know DPM wasn't unique to UK Forces, but it was a big part of the 'British' look.
Neggars Cheggars! Unles on Ops then UK DPM is still worn, there is not a shortage of UK DPM either! Yes you are right! DPM is very British and MTP is frankly minging!
 

Legs

ADC
Book Reviewer
#13
We are not a 'Corporation' so 'Corporate Identity' is a terrible phrase to use.

MTP is a camouflage that works. National Identity comes from the Union Flag sewn onto the sleeve. Service/Regt/Corps identity comes from the capbadge and TRF (and in the case of RN and RAF from the badge on their shirt).

Anything else is, frankly, civvy management crap.
 
#14
We are not a 'Corporation' so 'Corporate Identity' is a terrible phrase to use.

MTP is a camouflage that works. National Identity comes from the Union Flag sewn onto the sleeve. Service/Regt/Corps identity comes from the capbadge and TRF (and in the case of RN and RAF from the badge on their shirt).

Anything else is, frankly, civvy management crap.
Spot on Legs.

MTP is a camoflage style. Designed to protect our soldiers by allowing them to blend in to the background.... it isn't the golden arches.

If we must have a corporate identity then can I put the following suggestion forward?
 
#15
In public you do have a "corporate identity" as such (maybe "defence...." or "uniform...." identity would be better words).

The whole point about a uniform (in public) is that people know who you are!

Maybe the problem is there are too many different varieties of uniforms, why not have a common uniform across all regiments & corps with different collar badges, cap badges, berets, flashes, buttons etc.

Think of the amount of money it would save that then wouldn't have to be cut from elsewhere!
 
#16
trfs are a waste of time and money nobody really gives a dam about them (ok maybe mocking acf instructors who want to wear them)
having coloured bits of tat sewn onto camoflauge uniforms is ******* stupid.
at least chochlate frogs idea looks good and distinctive.
FAD is niether terribly smart or distinctive
 
#17
Maybe the problem is there are too many different varieties of uniforms, why not have a common uniform across all regiments & corps with different collar badges, cap badges, berets, flashes, buttons etc.
....like DPM (or MTP when it's completely rolled out) with the different cap badges, stable belts and/or TRFs!
 
#18
[One for the rumour service....]

So, will temperate or woodland DPM continue to be issued where appropriate? Or will it be replaced by MTP across the board?

I have heard that DPM will continue from one source, but another source says stocks will soon be exhausted and the current manufacturers will soon switch to MTP, and everyone will be wearing it, whether on ops or not.
 
#19
MTP is the new black. It is replacing the current crop of woodland and desert cam.
 
#20
[One for the rumour service....]

So, will temperate or woodland DPM continue to be issued where appropriate? Or will it be replaced by MTP across the board?

I have heard that DPM will continue from one source, but another source says stocks will soon be exhausted and the current manufacturers will soon switch to MTP, and everyone will be wearing it, whether on ops or not.
I think you can rest assured that your cadets will be in DPM for the next few years. I'm equally sure that you will be buying your MTP off ebay as soon as you can (ie when a set in XXXL appears).
 

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