Coronavirus , How Concerned Are You ?

Coronavirus , How Concerned Are You ?

  • I`m genuinely concerned and have started to make plans.

  • Nothing to worry about , carry on as normal .

  • I`ll be staying out of circulation until it dies down.

  • I`ve cancelled all travel plans.

  • Panic Panic Panic , we are all going to die .

  • Time to stock pile food and water .

  • I trust the British government to take care of everything.


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In another classic example of the Boris government sowing confusion for absolutely no other reason than they can, vaccines minister, Nadhim Zahawi, has announced that after 'Freedom Day' there will be an expectation that face coverings will still be worn in enclosed public spaces even though there will no longer be a legal requirement to do so.

So why change it? There is obviously still a need otherwise there would be no 'expectation'.

Nobody can mix messages like the Tories.

Apart from the elderly who wear their masks just covering their mouths but not their nose and the youths who think it's fashionable to wear their masks as a chin support, there are plenty of people, normally in their 20s and 30s and who appear fit and healthy, who can't be bothered to wear a mask at all. If you were to challenge them you know that they are either going to get angry or aggressive or just claim that they have a medical exemption, which would be bullshit of course. The shop and supermarket staff don't challenge them (it's not their job) and there's never a police officer in a supermarket to enforce the law. This happens all the time. My oppo, who is a train manager, has to deal with this c**tish attitude day-in, day-out.

Apart from those who have never obeyed the law, the general public seem to have reached a point of fatigue regarding wearing of face coverings and I fully expect that when the law changes the overwhelming majority are going to ditch them at the first opportunity.

[When laws are being routinely ignored then it's time to either rigorously enforce them or drop them altogether. There shouldn't be a position where a morally upstanding citizen is the only bugger that bothers. Take cycling for instance. It is illegal to cycle on a footpath. Totally ignored by the two-wheeled nazis which resulted in footpaths being turned into cycle lanes. Or, e-scooters. Again, illegal to ride on road or pavement (apart from in trial areas) but studiously ignored (usually by kids, youths and students) and nothing is done about it. I nearly took out some twat (who must have been in his mid-20s) as I turned off a roundabout and this twat was in the middle of the road on my side hurtling down hill towards me.]
 
It's a ploy. Introduce a relaxed, libertarian policy of abandoning enforceable regulation at a time when it is still needed and replace it with an "expectation" of behaviour. When it all goes tits up (as it surely will at a time when reported COVID cases in the UK are already going through the roof), the government can turn round, shrug their shoulders and say, 'Not our fault, chum. We gave them the advice'.

An absolutely shameful shrugging off of the responsibilities of government.

Very cynical - but I think you're absolutely right. I remember a saying about leaders delegating responsibility.
 
It's a ploy. Introduce a relaxed, libertarian policy of abandoning enforceable regulation at a time when it is still needed and replace it with an "expectation" of behaviour. When it all goes tits up (as it surely will at a time when reported COVID cases in the UK are already going through the roof), the government can turn round, shrug their shoulders and say, 'Not our fault, chum. We gave them the advice'.

An absolutely shameful shrugging off of the responsibilities of government.
Has anyone sued anyone yet for contributing to the death of a loved one or loss of earnings from Long COVID?
 
This whole debate over the wearing of face masks after lockdown restrictions are lifted is starting to get on my tits.

I absolutely agree, for some categories it is absolutely essential that they continue to wear their marks.

Especially the butt ugly fcukers...
 
This whole debate over the wearing of face masks after lockdown restrictions are lifted is starting to get on my tits.

I absolutely agree, for some categories it is absolutely essential that they continue to wear their marks.

Especially the butt ugly fcukers...

Oh yes, the double-baggers!
 
I'll plot that data you linked out this evening. Regarding "doing my own research" I'll just default to saying you have no examples to share.



I'll have a look at this section later but the key point is the infected and potentially infected are isolated from the healthy. The problem is that the characteristics of COVID19 are such that there is a high degree of uncertainty about who falls into which category without observations being made over time.
I'd let this slip but I've been reminded about it by another thread. Interestingly, the source there and the one used by @Revie are the same I think.
 
There is extremely scant evidence that masks or lockdowns work. 'Lockdown' has no history in medical science - it was invented by the Chinese Communist Party last year. There's no correlation between strength of measures and the death rate, and there still hasn't been any notable increase in excess mortality anywhere in the world.

Stay in your house and hide if you are worried, nobody is stopping you. You just shouldn't get to torment children any more, depriving them of their childhoods, killing some of them, and loading them with anxiety disorders for life. Nor should you get to deprive people half your age of essential life-saving services. Likewise, demand that women be locked up with their abusers. Or that business are trashed just to make you 'feel safer' - not actually be any safer.

The extremely low level of actual threat with which we've surrendered our liberties, abandoned pillars of our way of life, and forced actual hell on our fellow citizens is a disgrace.

Make sure to change your sock regularly.

Get that anti-vaxxing message out there to the sheeple, any way you can, right?
 
Make sure to change your sock regularly.

Get that anti-vaxxing message out there to the sheeple, any way you can, right?
  • It was “almost inevitable” that daily cases would climb to 100,000 a day and hospital admissions to 1,000 a day following the easing of restrictions.
  • It was distinctly possible that daily cases would climb to 200,000 a day and hospital admissions to 2,000 a day, which would cause “major disruption” to the NHS.
  • The peak of the current wave could occur between August and mid-September.
  • “It’s going to be a difficult summer for many reasons.”
From the wise and never wrong* Prof Lockdown himself.
It'll just be the 2 week lag......any day now.

* Ignoring:
2001 Foot and Mouth
2002 BSE
2005 Bird Flu
2009 Swine Flu
2020 Covid
He really needs his own thread on the Modeling forum, it'd be a damn site worse than glue fingerprints on the Spitfire cockpit.
 
Straw man. Grow up.

I'm getting the whiff of polyester/wool rather than straw from your contributions.

Account created a year ago, no posts for a year, then a sudden flurry of anti-vax, Covid-19-denying posts all in this thread.

Why aren't you using your normal account?
 

Revie

Clanker
I'm getting the whiff of polyester/wool rather than straw from your contributions.

Account created a year ago, no posts for a year, then a sudden flurry of anti-vax, Covid-19-denying posts all in this thread.

Why aren't you using your normal account?
The sources I’ve provided are largely UK government sources.

I’m a long-term lurker that’s taken in a debate I think important. Most likely the largest event of our lives.

The fact you’ve ignored this, and the points made, and gone straight for the classic ‘demonise the heretic, he’s up to something, tar him with false folk-devil associations’ vindicates everything I’ve said throughout this thread.
 

Revie

Clanker
Warning of the fundamental changes to our way of life that is likely to bring; that the evidence supports the Sweden, Texas approach; and that maybe we shouldn’t be listening to communists who are on record as saying they want distancing, masks, total surveillance, a command economy and a programmable currency forever, is beyond the pale now apparently in the New Normal, even among conservatives.
 
The sources I’ve provided are largely UK government sources.

I’m a long-term lurker that’s taken in a debate I think important. Most likely the largest event of our lives.

The fact you’ve ignored this, and the points made, and gone straight for the classic ‘demonise the heretic, he’s up to something, tar him with false folk-devil associations’ vindicates everything I’ve said throughout this thread.

You haven't made any points; it's all just the anti-vax/anti-government hysterical shrieking that your account was created for. Sowing FUD is clearly your only reason for posting.

Post this stuff under your real account if you have the courage of your convictions.
 
The sources I’ve provided are largely UK government sources.

I’m a cockwomble that’s taken in a debate I think important. Most likely the largest event of our lives.

The fact you’ve ignored this, and the points made, and gone straight for the classic ‘demonise the heretic, he’s up to something, tar him with false folk-devil associations’ vindicates everything I’ve said throughout this thread.
Fixed for you, the invoice is in the post...prompt payment please.
 
The sources I’ve provided are largely UK government sources.

I’m a long-term lurker that’s taken in a debate I think important. Most likely the largest event of our lives.

The fact you’ve ignored this, and the points made, and gone straight for the classic ‘demonise the heretic, he’s up to something, tar him with false folk-devil associations’ vindicates everything I’ve said throughout this thread.
" Long term lurker " - yes of course.
 

Revie

Clanker
You haven't made any points; it's all just the anti-vax/anti-government hysterical shrieking that your account was created for. Sowing FUD is clearly your only reason for posting.

Post this stuff under your real account if you have the courage of your convictions.
This is hysteria.

I d
You haven't made any points; it's all just the anti-vax/anti-government hysterical shrieking that your account was created for. Sowing FUD is clearly your only reason for posting.

Post this stuff under your real account if you have the courage of your convictions.
Deliberate lying, wild accusations and irrelevant demands (this is my only account, actually) is hysteria.

I don’t think I’ve mentioned the vax (personal health decision and I’ve had every vax I’ve ever supposed to)
And I’m not specifically anti-government. This relates to society as a whole much more than you the decisions of individual ministers: our reaction, the media, technology, our values. Much of this is a result of cultural currents running back to the First World War.
I’ve been less specifically critical of the executive then several back bench Conservative MPs.
 
This is hysteria.

I d

Deliberate lying, wild accusations and irrelevant demands (this is my only account, actually) is hysteria.

I don’t think I’ve mentioned the vax (personal health decision and I’ve had every vax I’ve ever supposed to)
And I’m not specifically anti-government. This relates to society as a whole much more than you the decisions of individual ministers: our reaction, the media, technology, our values. Much of this is a result of cultural currents running back to the First World War.
I’ve been less specifically critical of the executive then several back bench Conservative MPs.


I see.

You want the Boris Grr thread.

This is the Coronavirus Grr thread.
 

Revie

Clanker
I see.

You want the Boris Grr thread.

This is the Coronavirus Grr thread.
That’s the opposite to what I’ve just said. Nothing you’re writing bears any relation to what I’ve written.
I’ll conclude that you’re arguing with the voices or the doubts in your own head, because you definitely aren’t arguing with me.

Incidentally, if Cummings’ messages are legitimate, Johnson is of the same opinion as me. Which would reinforce my point that we’re stuck in a societal/cultural bind, not a bind that is wholly the responsibility of a rogue executive.
 
NOTE: The first graph shown here is incorrect, the corrected graph is shown down thread in this post. LINK

Here are our excess mortality rates: Deaths in the UK from 1990 to 2020 - Office for National Statistics How did we all survive the great plagues of the 1990s and 2008?

Regarding the rest of the world, many places haven't the played the game and done better than those that have, it's worth doing some of your own research there.



No it isn't. It's controlling the movements of the sick. Aside from the port restrictions mentioned, there is very little history of controlling the movements of healthy people in medical literature. (As an aside, I'm not too fussed for entry quarantining or testing when there's a nasty bug going round - but there simply isn't an apocalyptic plague occurring that justifies any of the other insane measures that make no sense). Those videos released from China of people dropping dead in the street scared us into this - obviously nonsense, but we've mission creeped into cancelling life because of long covid, as some on this thread are suggesting?

Nor was it part of our prior pandemic plan: Responding to a UK flu pandemic

Nor does the Public Health Act 1984 give them the powers to do it. (Again, playing fast and loose with the principle of parliamentary sovereignty is a massive existential threat to our way of life, highlighted by the likes of Jonathon Sumption - It's also contrary to the oath you swear too, as it's sworn to the Crown's power invested in parliament, not the whims of ministers).

It's a simple equation. If this is the bar at which we will give up our liberties, it's all over. There'll be a threat of this level every decade or so.

This winter, there'll be a similar amount of people dying from the same seasonal respiratory conditions that did last year, the year before, and as they always have. We, as a culture, are not going to be able to deal with that any more - it's been turned into a cynical trade union issue now, who will demand that this continues. As will the whole of the media and political classes that have invested all of their credibility into this.

Doubtless millions of lives would have been saved had we put homosexuals in camps during HIV, and made hetrosexual activity only legal between married couples and with an officer of the state present to check the status of the pair before they get down to it. Would that have been the right thing to do? (I'm being flippant, obviously, but it's the kind of logic we are slipping into)


Here is the plotted data. This is the contents of the table @Revie linked to. Population and Deaths are plotted against the Secondary axis (R) while the rates are against the Primary axis (R)**
G01 - Copy.PNG


The following graph shows the difference between the crude mortality ratio deaths in a particular year compared with the previous year (hence it starts at 1991 rather than 1990). As you can see it doesn't rise or fall more than 25,000ish (and mostly much less) until 2019-2020.
G02 - Copy.PNG


This is the same deal except using the Age Standardised Mortality ratio.
G03 - Copy.PNG


** Cocked up which axis was which.
 
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Warning of the fundamental changes to our way of life that is likely to bring; that the evidence supports the Sweden, Texas approach; and that maybe we shouldn’t be listening to communists who are on record as saying they want distancing, masks, total surveillance, a command economy and a programmable currency forever, is beyond the pale now apparently in the New Normal, even among conservatives.
Ref the bold. What exactly is 'that'?
 

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