Corbyn the communist spy!

DaManBugs

LE
Book Reviewer
You do keep some strange company Bugsy.
Why? You have to remember that, although I lived in the GDR and know a fair bit about the place, I wasn't born and socialised there. That means that I see a lot of issues through the eyes of a "foreigner". Certainly I spent my childhood in a household expounding Socialist values, but in a society that was totally dominated by the Catholic church at the time (late 1940s and 1950s).

The ex-Stasi folks I communicate with (many of whom I met while I was living in Cottbus after reunification and actually know personally) help me to further understand stuff that interests me.

It's much the same as attempting to fully explain the, rather complicated, Irish history to "outsiders". We, as it were, drink it in with our mothers' milk and have no problems, but making it even halfways understandable and coherent, even for Brits who're just "next door", is a monumental task, believe me.

MsG
 
Why? You have to remember that, although I lived in the GDR and know a fair bit about the place, I wasn't born and socialised there. That means that I see a lot of issues through the eyes of a "foreigner". Certainly I spent my childhood in a household expounding Socialist values, but in a society that was totally dominated by the Catholic church at the time (late 1940s and 1950s).

The ex-Stasi folks I communicate with (many of whom I met while I was living in Cottbus after reunification and actually know personally) help me to further understand stuff that interests me.

It's much the same as attempting to fully explain the, rather complicated, Irish history to "outsiders". We, as it were, drink it in with our mothers' milk and have no problems, but making it even halfways understandable and coherent, even for Brits who're just "next door", is a monumental task, believe me.

MsG
Sorry Bugsy, but I will have to disagree with you on your association with ex members of an organisation that was every bit as reprehensible as the Gestapo. Hey ho... It's your life however, old love.

Edited to add: Bugsy, this is a genuine question. These ex Stasi friends of yours. Are they all still hardline communists? Or have any of them embraced capitalism and all of its trappings.
 
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I doubt Corbyn was able to hand over the sort of secrets that would have made quick, important consequences but I wouldn't be surprised if he offered his services as an insider to any state or group whose ideologies aligned.

Why would you go into British politics as an Irish nationalist unless it was some long term p1ss take? There's enough evidence of a mindset which isn't compatible with serving the interests of the UK or the people on it.
 
You're actually wrong about there being "very few ethnics" in the GDR. There were thousands of them! Cubans, Moroccans, Syrians, Palestinians, Libyans, Algerians (who ran the officially "non-existant" prossies in Berlin, Capital of the GDR), Vietnamese, Lebanese, Italians, Frogs, to name just a few. The GDR wasn't isolated like North Korea, y'know.

MsG
Each had his/her file?
 

DaManBugs

LE
Book Reviewer
Each had his/her file?
Oh, absolutely. Although it went much further than that for some groups. The Libyans, Palestinians, Lebanese, Cubans and Syrians (those are the ones I knew about, there may have been more) each had their own official offices representing their states in Berlin, Capital of the GDR.

There was even a department of the Stasi (I think it was Dept VIII – Abteilung VIII – but I’m not sure) that was specially tasked with keeping a watchful eye on them.

MsG

Edited to add. I've just referred to my old notes and the Stasi department in question was the AG A (Arbeitsgruppe Ausländer), headed by Wolfgang Stuchly, and not Dept VIII. My apologies for the mistake.
 
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Oh, absolutely. Although it went much further than that for some groups. The Libyans, Palestinians, Lebanese, Cubans and Syrians (those are the ones I knew about, there may have been more) each had their own official offices representing their states in Berlin, Capital of the GDR.

There was even a department of the Stasi (I think it was Dept VIII – Abteilung VIII – but I’m not sure) that was specially tasked with keeping a watchful eye on them.

MsG

Edited to add. I've just referred to my old notes and the Stasi department in question was the AG A (Arbeitsgruppe Ausländer), headed by Wolfgang Stuchly, and not Dept VIII. My apologies for the mistake.
Oh, absolutely. Although it went much further than that for some groups. The Libyans, Palestinians, Lebanese, Cubans and Syrians (those are the ones I knew about, there may have been more) each had their own official offices representing their states in Berlin, Capital of the GDR.

There was even a department of the Stasi (I think it was Dept VIII – Abteilung VIII – but I’m not sure) that was specially tasked with keeping a watchful eye on them.

MsG

Edited to add. I've just referred to my old notes and the Stasi department in question was the AG A (Arbeitsgruppe Ausländer), headed by Wolfgang Stuchly, and not Dept VIII. My apologies for the mistake.
Thank you Bugs for your informed advice. To digress from the main topic here, perhaps all this talk of files and detailed reports every time you use a public crapper puts a light on the Boxhead mentality (East/West North and South and Central) , a love of order, neat little files, in boxes in line all cross referenced? no doubt the standard to which the files were maintained would bring tears to the eyes of a British Chief Clerk? oh the rubber stamps on the reports, lots of them.

No doubt the same under the Nazi's and the Kaiser/Prussians who got a bit excited about 'order'
 
You have to remember that, although I lived in the GDR and know a fair bit about the place
But that doesn't extend to your knowledge of GSFG in Eastern Germany as is blatantly obvious by your post.
I believe you'll find that Soviet troops were banned from public places on an almost permanent basis. At least the normal squaddies were, although their Ruperts generally had a lot more freedom - especially their political officers. About the only times the Toms were allowed out "among the East German populace", as it were, they were either out on scheme, or on a conducted sightseeing tour.

Even as late as 1994, when there were still Soviet troops in Cottbus and other places, they were confined to barracks. I'd made friends with quite a lot of Soviet officers in the meantime and when we were in the barracks, they were unfriendly and regarded me with suspicion: until they found out I was an "Ирландец" and not a "Немецкий". That really broke the ice for some reason.
But so much for the much-vaunted "Soviet-GDR Brotherhood!"
The vast majority of Soviet troops were conscripts, many of them had Russian as a second language let alone German. They were paid a pittance and did not venture out for what little night life there was. Far from being banned from public places though, it was a show of strength from the occupying force to be seen in public. However there was a lucrative black market in all the garrison towns in East Germany and the Sovs would steal what they could from their own barracks for sale or swaps outside the wire. The black market worked both ways of course. The Soviet officers had more money and time and would venture out to restaurants and the opera etc. However there was a strict no fraternisation rule with the Ossies
The only Easties that went onto Soviet barracks worked there and were issued passes to enter the camp, just like we did, or were members of the NVA/ Stasi and were invited for get togethers or work. There were also organised events in the local community by the "German Soviet Friendship" organization which by all accounts were dreary encounters. Though meant to promote friendship, anything but superficial small talk between Germans and Soviets was, ironically, not only discouraged but forbidden.
I doubt very much that you "made friends with quite a lot of Soviet officers" let alone socialised with them in their barracks.
Anyway keep the stories coming, I find them mildly amusing.
 
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Given that B Johnson is Foreign Secretary
Is he? Who could forget this?

"There was a young fellow from Ankara, Who was a terrific wankerer.

"Till he sowed his wild oats, With the help of a goat, But he didn't even stop to thankera."


Then there's this.

1519332216649.png
1519332216649.png
 
You obviously think that you're making a damning point there, Grac, though all I can see is some Hipster-lite opinion piece from a Left-leaning medium.
The point is that BoJo is a shit FS who alienates countries, he's a fecking anti diplomat.

The original was a bit of light humour, to put this witch hunt in perspective, as afneil did in his interview. People are believing what they want to believe absent of evidence.

I'll ask again, does anyone here believe that Corbyn was an asset of a WARPAC country and if so, do they believe the source of this information when he says he was responsible for Live Aid?
 

DaManBugs

LE
Book Reviewer
Thank you Bugs for your informed advice. To digress from the main topic here, perhaps all this talk of files and detailed reports every time you use a public crapper puts a light on the Boxhead mentality (East/West North and South and Central) , a love of order, neat little files, in boxes in line all cross referenced? no doubt the standard to which the files were maintained would bring tears to the eyes of a British Chief Clerk? oh the rubber stamps on the reports, lots of them.

No doubt the same under the Nazi's and the Kaiser/Prussians who got a bit excited about 'order'
You’re absolutely correct in your assessment of the German/Prussian love of order there, Buss Pass 01! The reason for that is brilliantly explained in a book entitled “Wir Untertanen” (We Subjects) by the late and great German author Bernd Engelmann (PBUH). In the book, he details the quite diabolical conditions of "order" imposed on the population in Germany from primitive feudalism right up to WWI, and which also led to the “order” mindset still prevalent there today.

Anyone who’s served in Germany (that’s thousands of ARRSErs) are probably familiar with the (West) German obsession with “order” that’s typified in the maxim: “Ordnung muss sein!” – Order is imperative! Which is a plea for: “give me regulations that I can hold to”. Which is why Germany has by far more “laws” than any other county in the world.

What the Boxheed sense of “order” means in practical terms is that if you’re standing at a pedestrian crossing and you can’t see a vehicle approaching from either direction for about 200 metres, you (as a non-German) step out and cross the road. All the Boxheeds patiently waiting for green will berate you with such bollix as: “What sort of example is that to our children? (even if they’ve no children with them). I’ve experienced the very same situation any number of times. I just love to come back with: “If you’re so fückin’ stupid that you’ve taught your kids to step out when vehicles are approaching, they deserve everything they fückin’ get!” (I won’t put that in German, otherwise I might get banned again – it’s happened before!). Which is guaranteed to start a highly fevered discussion, but does nothing at all to convince the Boxheeds that they might want to reassess their attitudes.

Apart from that, Boxheeds (East and West) have a longstanding and very intense love-affair with stamps. I’ve seen Boxheed civil servants’ desks with two, three and even four of those revolving stamp holders on their desks, with one for every occasion. The thing is that they regard it as “normal”. Rejected? STAMP! Not valid? STAMP! Needs more information? STAMP! Just died? STAMP! Need more time? STAMP! No time left? STAMP! All the beer’s gone? STAMP! And on and on. I really don’t believe they can change. Just like the normal Boxheed practice of “double-signing”, whereby any official letters have to be signed by two people, with the initials of the originator and the “typist”/sender clear to the recipient. Autres pays, autre moires, as the Frogs say.

MsG

Edited to add. I'm trying to provide a bit of (hopefully) useful information here on a thread that seems to be of general interest to a number of ARRSErs. What does that cünt Murphy's_Whore (and others) hope to gain from his constant efforts to undermine everything I state? Is it a manifestation of his deranged obsession with me? I'll leave others to decide on that.:smile::smile::smile:
 
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DaManBugs

LE
Book Reviewer
The vast majority of Soviet troops were conscripts, many of them had Russian as a second language let alone German. They were paid a pittance and did not venture out for what little night life there was. Far from being banned from public places though, it was a show of strength from the occupying force to be seen in public. However there was a lucrative black market in all the garrison towns in East Germany and the Sovs would steal what they could from their own barracks for sale or swaps outside the wire. The black market worked both ways of course. The Soviet officers had more money and time and would venture out to restaurants and the opera etc. However there was a strict no fraternisation rule with the Ossies
The only Easties that went onto Soviet barracks worked there and were issued passes to enter the camp, just like we did, or were members of the NVA/ Stasi and were invited for get togethers or work. There were also organised events in the local community by the "German Soviet Friendship" organization which by all accounts were dreary encounters. Though meant to promote friendship, anything but superficial small talk between Germans and Soviets was, ironically, not only discouraged but forbidden.
I doubt very much that you "made friends with quite a lot of Soviet officers" let alone socialised with them in their barracks.
Anyway keep the stories coming, I find them mildly amusing.
Why don't you just do one, Murphy's_Whore?

It's quite clear that you don't have even the arse-end of an idea about East German society and its motivations, but you insist on presenting yourself as some sort of exclusive "expert", without contributing anything positive to the thread.

On the other hand, I lived in East Germany as a normal worker and I've discovered that folks on ARRSE find that interesting and want to know more about it, since thousands of them lived "next door" to the state (in West Germany), without ever having any real opportunity of finding out what was actually going on there at the time.

It's clear that your main objective is to shoot down whatever at all I state, without providing any evidence whatsoever for your postulations. I can understand your deranged obsession with me, but it does nothing to really provide useful and interesting information to others on ARRSE on the subject and just highlights your selfish and pathetic desire to capture attention whatever the cost. If you're so focussed on me, why don't you just PM me and we can have a proper bust-up, instead of constantly interrupting what's proved to be an interesting thread with your stupid remarks. Just saying, like.

MsG
 

DaManBugs

LE
Book Reviewer
Sorry Bugsy, but I will have to disagree with you on your association with ex members of an organisation that was every bit as reprehensible as the Gestapo. Hey ho... It's your life however, old love.

Edited to add: Bugsy, this is a genuine question. These ex Stasi friends of yours. Are they all still hardline communists? Or have any of them embraced capitalism and all of its trappings.
I don’t share your view that the Stasi was as reprehensible as the Gestapo, SA, etc. There are a few reasons for that. Firstly, Nazi Germany wasn’t under constant attack from foreign (outside) elements, so their repressive organs were solely to put the shits up the populace with illegal actions that weren’t covered by any laws or directives. They were given free hand to do what they wanted. That was never the case by the Stasi. They were (and still are) Germans, and, like all Germans, they did everything by the book. That was explicitly confirmed by the (West) German Federal Constitutional Court in 1995, when it stated that the Stasi acted exclusively according to GDR laws and the directives issued by the Central Committee. That, of course, is no consolation to those who fell victim to the Stasi. However, those victims are being (or have already been) compensated for what happened to them.

Which is more than can be said for the over 60,000 victims of the West German “Constitutional Chambers”, established in 1948 and finally disbanded in 1967. Such folks were handed sometimes quite lengthy jail sentences for “Communist/Socialist sympathies”, very often based only on hearsay evidence. As if that wasn’t enough, German Jews who somehow managed to survive the horrific concentration camps were refused any compensation by the West Germans after WWII if they showed (or were suspected of) any such “Communist/Socialist sympathies”. During that period in West Germany it was a sort of “Gestapo – The Sequel”. That wasn’t surprising, really, since by 1950 over 90 percent of the Nazi judges and state prosecutors were back in their old jobs having been magically “denazified”.

If you read my chapter on the Stasi, you’ll find that I make no bones about it being a repressive organ of the state and a total pain in the arse for the population, but at the same time, the Stasi were always willing to send their own tradesmen in to renew rotted or broken windows, fix the plumbing, re-tile leaking roofs, etc, when all other avenues had been exhausted They even carried out urgent operations in their own hospitals when folks suffered sudden illnesses and the healthcare system couldn’t cope. Something that neither MI5 nor the FBI does, as far as I know.

Your question in your edit is very interesting. All of the ex-Stasi officers I know are still firmly convinced that Socialism is the best system for humankind on a long-term basis. On the other hand, they’re quite open in their criticism about the very real failings of the GDR and, at the same time, still extremely frustrated that their many warnings of impending doom weren’t being taken seriously by the Politburo. They could very clearly see that from about 1984 onwards something was building up and they sent masses of corresponding reports to the Berlin HQ – which were all totally ignored. At the same time, they were powerless to stop it because they were only empowered to act on directives from the Central Committee – which weren’t forthcoming because the Central Committee was never informed about the true extent of the growing chaos in the country.

They also charge Erich the Hon with being far more concerned about building up his own personal cult than looking to the occasions of the population. That’s why the Stasi only superficially pursued the issue when between 1979 and 1984 three elaborate bases were constructed on the Alexanderplatz to take a life-size bronze statue of Erich. The bases were blown to shits every time by “person or persons unknown”. In truth, the Stasi had a very good idea who was behind it, but they had no mind to apprehend the culprits (one of whom was an ex-miner and actually worked for the Stasi as a bricklayer), because they didn’t want a stupid statue of Erich either. So they just went through the motions.

Most of my ex-Stasi friends have come to terms with the brand of Capitalism as practiced in Germany. What they don’t like about it is the smug way that the Wessis have arbitrarily reduced their pension entitlements as a form of “punishment” for having been in the Stasi. The Federal German Constitutional Court has twice declared the practice illegal (initially in 1998 and again in 2005), but it still continues. It’s a form of petty and small-minded “victor’s justice”, really.

MsG
 
Why don't you just do one, Murphy's_Whore?

It's clear that your main objective is to shoot down whatever at all I state, without providing any evidence whatsoever for your postulations.

MsG
Yeah, it's terrible when that happens....

But much more telling is the fact that my uncle, my aunt, my cousin and my sister were topped by the British Army in early 1975.
 

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