Corbyn the communist spy!

This thread is very interesting imho.
Last night I was watching the TV news and a chap from the Syrian government was telling a reporter that the Syrian air force havent bombed the Syrian population................this morning I'm fully expecting all the bomb bast victims to have disappeared from hospitals. ;)

It reminded me of how Martin McGuiness said he was never a member of the IRA or Bill Clinton saying he had never had sexual relations with an intern.

Going back to Corbyn for a second, one thing that I find interesting is that people like Ken Livingstone who have 'been around the block a few times' so would know a Stasi file had been opened on Corbyn are using a 'clever' tactic.
Just like the German authorities mentioned (although the original East Germany no longer exists) that no file was found in the most recent search, and DIDN'T obviously say no file exists or hasn't been found Ken has been saying that the story isn't true on the basis the people saying there is a file are wealthy, or right wingers.
It's interesting that he isn't saying that he thinks no file exists, and lets face it he isn't scared of saying what he thinks!

For my own part, what I would have liked to have read were any references to Corbyns moral code, on the basis he'd shagged Abbott.
Politicians seem to be changing in modern times, and new morals and ethics seem to be very different to older politicos. We have leaders of both UKIP and Labour who have had relationships with women in the same party as them, and women who are known for making racist comments :)
 

Goatman

ADC
Book Reviewer
Well said Matthew d'Ancona:

Part of the problem is that any criticism of the Labour leader – of whatever character – is axiomatically dismissed by his followers as “a smear”. It is not just that they defend him, as any loyal supporters would. It has become central to their worldview that JC is, quite simply, beyond reproach. Here we leave the realm of political discourse and stray into the cloisters of theology – not a sensible place, I would say, to debate the merits of a prospective prime minister.


But there is a greater and more pernicious force at work here, too – and one that is not confined to the Labour party. It is the notion that we live in an age of daily reboot, in which the past is of only antiquarian interest and certainly of little relevance to the present. The cold war? Didn’t that all end in 1989? Why drag that up?

To which the answer is – because the jagged legacy of that exhausting struggle does much to explain the predicament in which we find ourselves today. The pathologies of unrestricted globalisation; the terrible absence of a Marshall plan for the former Soviet bloc; the rise of religious fundamentalism; and the surge of nationalist populism in a world in which glacial confrontation has been replaced by unimaginably hectic upheaval:
none of this makes sense without an understanding of what preceded it.
 
Here is the official statement, straight from the horses mouth:

BStU - Topics - For immediate release


For immediate release
Currently there is a debate in Great Britain about a possible documentation of activities of the Labour politician Jeremy Corbyn in the Stasi records. The Federal Commissioner for the Stasi Records (BStU) usually only releases information with connection to a person to journalists and researchers when records document an official or unofficial collaboration with the Ministry of State Security. Otherwise there is no further disclosure. But because speculations have risen because of this policy in the case of Jeremy Corbyn and Diane Abbott, the BStU for this case makes the following statement:
The most recent researches in the written records of the Ministry for State Security of East Germany have not produced any records or any other information on Jeremy Corbyn or Diane Abbott.
Dagmar Hovestädt
press spokeswoman BStU


A very cleverly worded statement, that uses the phrase "most recent researches" It rather neatly avoids mentioning whether there ever was a file and whether they think it was shredded, stolen or burnt.
I would imagine that when the records first became available, intelligence agencies around the world would have inundated the BStU for information regarding their own persons of interest. Whether certain files were given up at that time will be the subject of much debate. I think we can be pretty sure there were files on most of our MP's, especially those with sympathetic ideologies and certainly those who visited the DDR.

No mention of a 9" file about a lunatic picture restorer either!
Apparently the 'Diplomat' wrote it on the back of his State Produced fag packet and threw it in the bin as he left his exclusive Party allocated apartment. So whilst it may have existed there was no known record of a 'meeting' but..... his uncles, wife's, friend who was staying in his Party allocated apartment, heard that the block cleaner had said "she had found a fag packet with 'Eng MP Jer Cor' written on it, in a first floor bin ,whilst searching for any remaining tobacco or food to feed her sisters starving family because the bread queue was so long that it ran out yesterday".She recalled she had found it and kept it in a drawer somewhere last week. It was whilst reading on the Internet that the English Press had reported that ,some scruffy politician ,during the last century had met with a 'Diplomat' who might or might not have been a State Security Agent.This 'agent' was trying to sell his recollections of those Happy Times to anyone who would listen,after all he was an infamous 'spy' and an actual State Hero who had once taken Tea at the English Parliament along with his Boss ,the Third Secretary to the Deputy Head of Agriculture at the State Farming Ministries Office of Seed Affairs...........they had discovered the efficatious and invigorating type of tea being drank by decadent Western Parliamentarians.It was such a closely guarded Top Secret Blend that he immediately communicated it to KGB HQ in Moscow by way of his own State Security HQ .,Comrade Brezhniev was so amazed by the report that Twinings was better than anything in the Soviet Union ,he immediately decreed that said informant 'Jeremy Corbyn' should be recruited to find out how such an amazing brew was being produced .After all only dried Privet leaves had been available since 1917, even to the leadership of the USSR. Russian Tea which, it was well know across the Motherland, was the greatest and much sought after and proudly used in the countries State Produced Samovars......And so.....there we have it........ Conclusive proof the Jeremy Corbyn was selling State Secrets during the Cold War.
 
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Well said Matthew d'Ancona:

Part of the problem is that any criticism of the Labour leader – of whatever character – is axiomatically dismissed by his followers as “a smear”. It is not just that they defend him, as any loyal supporters would. It has become central to their worldview that JC is, quite simply, beyond reproach. Here we leave the realm of political discourse and stray into the cloisters of theology – not a sensible place, I would say, to debate the merits of a prospective prime minister.


But there is a greater and more pernicious force at work here, too – and one that is not confined to the Labour party. It is the notion that we live in an age of daily reboot, in which the past is of only antiquarian interest and certainly of little relevance to the present. The cold war? Didn’t that all end in 1989? Why drag that up?

To which the answer is – because the jagged legacy of that exhausting struggle does much to explain the predicament in which we find ourselves today. The pathologies of unrestricted globalisation; the terrible absence of a Marshall plan for the former Soviet bloc; the rise of religious fundamentalism; and the surge of nationalist populism in a world in which glacial confrontation has been replaced by unimaginably hectic upheaval: none of this makes sense without an understanding of what preceded it.
Awww-Gawd Bless 'Guardian' journalism: never use one word when 10 will do.

Possibly the piece could be summed up by better men?

'Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.' (George Santayana-1905).

With the following AL over 40 years later:

'Those who fail to learn from history are condemned to repeat it.' (WSC Churchill-1948)).
 
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The peculiar thing about this case is that neither Corbyn or anyone else needs to have any guilt or sensitivity about the Stasi/ KGB "having a file on them" - the existence of a file.

The Warsaw Pact agencies kept files on everyone of interest, not just those who were co-operating in some way. E.g. they'd have a file on Maggie, and probably every single British Army officer, and quite possibly anyone who'd been mentioned in a British newspaper headline. Certainly every single British MP or political activist since WW2 would have been recorded.

In the brief Russian liberal interregnum of the 90's, it was even possible for foreigners with the right connections to buy access to their own KGB/FSB files or those of corporate colleagues (some of the contents were a laugh, some were sinister and frightening).

Sensitivity about the potential contents of a file would be a different matter, as that would indicate knowledge of compromising data not already in the public domain.
 
They have checked the archive. It isn't there. Deal with it.
Ask ANY Archivist how much can be mislaid in a highly planned and meticulously move under very controlled circumstances from one archive location to another before talking utter s**te

You've been told by 2 different people that EVERY SINGLE FOREIGNER who visited the DDR had a file. more than once in fact, both of those people have looked at their files and they are both, relativity speaking nobodies (sorry) The sainted prig JC is a Labour MP and was a member of a group the DDR had agents in and encouraged to act in a manner beneficial to the DDR. He went on a motorcycle tour of the DDR FFS.

You have either incredibly dumb or a useful idiot. Or just a p***k.
 
Ask ANY Archivist how much can be mislaid in a highly planned and meticulously move under very controlled circumstances from one archive location to another before talking utter s**te

You've been told by 2 different people that EVERY SINGLE FOREIGNER who visited the DDR had a file. more than once in fact, both of those people have looked at their files and they are both, relativity speaking nobodies (sorry) The sainted prig JC is a Labour MP and was a member of a group the DDR had agents in and encouraged to act in a manner beneficial to the DDR. He went on a motorcycle tour of the DDR FFS.

You have either incredibly dumb or a useful idiot. Or just a p***k.

Oh dear, on to the ad hom. You've also been told that the personnel files were finished in 1995, as the ones of most interest obviously.

There's a file that Filthy trot Corbyn won't let us look at.

Ahem, we are charged with looking after those files and there isn't one.

And I'm the idiot?
 
No. No I'm not. I have said what I have said. There was a smear that Corbyn was refusing to sign a release document to allow examination of his Stasi file.

That file doesn't exist. The fact it doesnt exist has been verified by the very people responsible for archiving the Stasi files. In fact the task of archiving the personnel files was completed in 1995 apparently.

I said it was a smear and the facts at hand prove that it was a smear. That's all I have ever said.
In an effort to end the merry go round

It strikes me Mr Shankley is arguing no file exists today wheras others are arguing a file would have existed - Both positions can be correct

In an effort to end the merry go round

Mr Shankley Do you accept its highly probable if not a dead cert that there would have been a file on Mr Corbyn during the cold war - (even if it amounted to no more than Back bencher, Visited DDR - No further interest) simply because he visited the east and was an MP.

Everyone else - Do you accept Mr Shankley is not disputing a files Historical existence - but only its existence in Stasi hands today.

Which only leaves the issue of whether the file does exist today - which cannot be resolved further than Stasi says no - which could mean lost, destroyed, binned as irrelevant, acquired by other intelligence agencies.
Perhaps best left as - Stasi have not found said file and have concluded they dont have it.
 
In an effort to end the merry go round

It strikes me Mr Shankley is arguing no file exists today wheras others are arguing a file would have existed - Both positions can be correct

In an effort to end the merry go round

Mr Shankley Do you accept its highly probable if not a dead cert that there would have been a file on Mr Corbyn during the cold war - (even if it amounted to no more than Back bencher, Visited DDR - No further interest) simply because he visited the east and was an MP.

Everyone else - Do you accept Mr Shankley is not disputing a files Historical existence - but only its existence in Stasi hands today.

Which only leaves the issue of whether the file does exist today - which cannot be resolved further than Stasi says no - which could mean lost, destroyed, binned as irrelevant, acquired by other intelligence agencies.
Perhaps best left as - Stasi have not found said file and have concluded they dont have it.

Ahh at last, someone actually reads what I'm saying as opposed to what everyone implies I am thinking.

I have absolutely no doubt that every foreigner who visited the East had a file, I probably had one as I popped over for the crystal when the wall was up (in uniform I should add).

The basis of the smear was that Corbyn wouldn't allow access to that file. The fact that makes it a smear is that said file isn't in the archive where the smearers said it would be. It isn't there. There is no file.

What happened to said file I do not know. Neither do you. What I have said is factually accurate. What most others have said is conjecture. My money would be on it going in the great burn, but that's complete guesswork. Much like everyone else.
 
This is all getting very tedious and repetitive. Shanks doesn't think there was ever a file, everyone else does. Let's leave it at that.
The main thing to take from this is that mud sticks and Corbyn, McDonnell etc. are covered in it. However the more the right wing press make of the story (especially if they embellish it) the more people will feel sympathy for, and side with Corbyn. (see last election).
The peace movements of the 70's and 80's were frequented by loads of mainly back bench Labour MP's. We know that these movements were targeted and indeed part funded by WarPac agencies. It is therefore safe to assume that some contacts were made. I very much doubt if any major state secrets were divulged, but it is all very embarrassing for those involved, especially as some of them have risen to heights they never dreamed possible.
 
He won't fire Nuclear Weapons.
I have no problem with this
What I have a problem with is a prime ministerial candidate telling the world this as it totally undermines the deterrent.
Not an issue if he scraps the deterrent - but he isn't, so with Corbyn as PM we now have anon deterring deterrent costing a bloody fortune.
And potentially a 5 yr window to strike at the UK knowing there would be no response.

The rest of it is politics and ideology and can be argued but this - this is why he wouldn't get my vote.
I consider him a dangerous idiot, condemned by his own words - not because I believe the media which is the normal accusation if you disagree with St Jeremy of Corbyn
 
Ahh at last, someone actually reads what I'm saying as opposed to what everyone implies I am thinking.
The reveroscycle's down for maint, so you'll have to do better than that. You were asked repetitively did he have a file? You denied there was one, even after being told by two people who might know something that it was SOP for the MfS...... The best you can do now is grasp at the 'I meant there isn't one now' straw - which ironically contains the word 'straw' as in 'straw-man' argument. So this is the bottom line, both Corbyn and Abbott would have had Stasi files raised on them as soon as they crossed the border into their 'socialist utopia' a copy of everything they did, or saw, every contact they made, every approach would be passed on to the KGB

You were also asked if you were the DV man would you give him any clearance........you refused to answer - because deep down...........would you really trust him with state secrets, given his past?
 
would you really trust him with state secrets, given his past?
I wouldn't trust him with a shopping list let alone state secrets based on who he is now as well as his past. It's all well and good pointing out failures in society and scoring other easy points but when people don't know which state or people you are loyal to, then perhaps prime minister isn't the job for you.
 
In an effort to end the merry go round

It strikes me Mr Shankley is arguing no file exists today wheras others are arguing a file would have existed - Both positions can be correct

In an effort to end the merry go round

Mr Shankley Do you accept its highly probable if not a dead cert that there would have been a file on Mr Corbyn during the cold war - (even if it amounted to no more than Back bencher, Visited DDR - No further interest) simply because he visited the east and was an MP.

Everyone else - Do you accept Mr Shankley is not disputing a files Historical existence - but only its existence in Stasi hands today.

Which only leaves the issue of whether the file does exist today - which cannot be resolved further than Stasi says no - which could mean lost, destroyed, binned as irrelevant, acquired by other intelligence agencies.
Perhaps best left as - Stasi have not found said file and have concluded they dont have it.
Unless..........you give me several thousand of your English pounds then I can conclusively say it might have existed and I might at some future date find it .It might even show he was a 'source' but what kind of 'source' I can not at this time say and until I see the money I can't say for sure one way or the other.
 
The reveroscycle's down for maint, so you'll have to do better than that. You were asked repetitively did he have a file? You denied there was one, even after being told by two people who might know something that it was SOP for the MfS...... The best you can do now is grasp at the 'I meant there isn't one now' straw - which ironically contains the word 'straw' as in 'straw-man' argument. So this is the bottom line, both Corbyn and Abbott would have had Stasi files raised on them as soon as they crossed the border into their 'socialist utopia' a copy of everything they did, or saw, every contact they made, every approach would be passed on to the KGB

You were also asked if you were the DV man would you give him any clearance........you refused to answer - because deep down...........would you really trust him with state secrets, given his past?

Go on. Quote me where I said it never existed. Please. I'll wait. In fact I've been waiting since 0750 this morning.
 
This is all getting very tedious and repetitive. Shanks doesn't think there was ever a file, everyone else does. Let's leave it at that.
The main thing to take from this is that mud sticks and Corbyn, McDonnell etc. are covered in it. However the more the right wing press make of the story (especially if they embellish it) the more people will feel sympathy for, and side with Corbyn. (see last election).
The peace movements of the 70's and 80's were frequented by loads of mainly back bench Labour MP's. We know that these movements were targeted and indeed part funded by WarPac agencies. It is therefore safe to assume that some contacts were made. I very much doubt if any major state secrets were divulged, but it is all very embarrassing for those involved, especially as some of them have risen to heights they never dreamed possible.

Erm, no. I've never said that. Once again, quote me. Please.
 
I wouldn't trust him with a shopping list let alone state secrets based on who he is now as well as his past. It's all well and good pointing out failures in society and scoring other easy points but when people don't know which state or people you are loyal to, then perhaps prime minister isn't the job for you.
It seems easy to spot which states he is loyal to, any left wing anti western state,s butpreferably ones that want to blame gays and jews for everything
 
.......you're really, really not bothered are you MSB? Surely St Jezza is just the victim of a 40 year sting operation by the Stasi/KGB/MI6/MI5/FBI/StU/Zomo/MFI/NKVD/OGPU/Tufty Club? I mean it's not as if he's an unrepentant old Marxist who misses the DDR and is a valued friend of the IRA*.......? Why can't we all see that?

*Their words, not mine
 
.......you're really, really not bothered are you MSB? Surely St Jezza is just the victim of a 40 year sting operation by the Stasi/KGB/MI6/MI5/FBI/StU/Zomo/MFI/NKVD/OGPU/Tufty Club? I mean it's not as if he's an unrepentant old Marxist who misses the DDR and is a valued friend of the IRA*.......? Why can't we all see that?

*Their words, not mine
No quote then?
 

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