Corbyn the communist spy!

They've been practicing it in various formats for just over one hundred years, I'm surprised that they've made no progress whatsoever.
Damn that ungrateful public, they just don't know what is good for them,

Still standing up and misquoting poetry to a fawning crowd at Glastonbury will make you a rebel hero.

Until you realise that all that "Rise like lions after slumber, ye are many, they are few" is bollocks.

They didn't rise up, did they? The Metropolitan Police Act 1829 got rid of people being chopped up by the militia, and a success of reform acts extended the franchise until full adult suffrage in 1928 (ladies got the vote on totally equal terms then).

Chuck in social reforms courtesy of Lloyd George and Attlee, and you have functional parliamentary democracy.

Rather than some silly red cult that explain every time it fucks up (and does it **** up) by saying, "well that wasn't done properly. We'll get it right next time".

You know, grown up decision-making. Not some fantasy which I would see the truth of, if only I suspended all disbelief to the contrary 'cos I'm too stupid to know what is good for me.
 
Communism makes the key mistakes of assuming that:
1/ Everyone is altruistic and doesn't mind working their arrses off for their fellow man
2/ Nobody has any ambition to improve their lot in life other than the Politburo
3/ That a brain surgeon is equally valuable to society as a toilet sweeper

In order for communism to function perfectly, Joe Stalin, Kruschev, and Putin would be happy to live in little damp flats on Bumfuck Prospekt and forgo their Black Sea dachas for the good of the proletariat. As we know, it doesn't work like that in any communist or notionally communist nation.

There will always be a natural hierarchy because, for example, a toilet cleaner can never be a brain surgeon but a brain surgeon is perfectly capable of cleaning toilets (albeit that it would be a complete waste of talent). And indeed, why should one not be rewarded according to one's talents?

I would state also that communism is equally, if not more corrupt than capitalism in the real world.
 
@Ho2331
I’d like to respond to these points, if I may:

So we don't go to the polls every five years?
That’s correct. A General Election every five years. But you’re more than naïve if you believe that makes any difference whatsoever. You may certainly get a different gobment, but the policies they’ll be forced to implement by the “real” rulers of the UK won’t benefit any normal folks to any great degree, only the rich and powerful. The politicians are expendable and are there primarily to take the heat when the population rebels against this or that. They only form the executive squad for those who really have the say in the country but wish to remain anonymous.
Again I would argue that we do have a fair and equal justice system. I certainly don't have to worry about having my hands cut off for stealing something. Nor will I be shot for wishing to escape from the country.
Really? A fair and equal system? Since when? “Justice” starts at about a minimum of £100,000 pa. If you’re not earning that, don’t expect the judges to look favourably upon you. The privileged classes, quite literally, get away with murder. It’s only when one of their number can’t swing it with connections (for whatever reason) that they receive a derisory sentence and are back at the old job in short order. I’d actually love to see a genuinely equal and fair justice system, but it’s never going to happen unless we make a concerted effort to introduce real and meaningful democracy.
So I cannot run for political office then?
Sure you can, but if your ideas are too radical or threaten to interrupt the steady flow of money upwards towards the privileged classes, you’ll have no chance. If they can’t destroy your reputation with your own past deeds, however inconsequential, they’ll make something up. It happens all the time – see the case of Jeremy Corbyn at present.

In response to your other assumption; I’m not sure if I’d have joined the Stasi had I been born in the GDR. I’ve fought my whole life against inequality and injustice. I imagine that I’d still be a committed Socialist, but by the time I’d have finished school and studying, I reckon my disillusionment with the whole corrupt system would’ve been complete.

In that vein, don’t believe that GDR citizens didn’t know what was going on. They passed through one of the finest education systems in the world and I never met one who wasn’t very much aware of the true state of things. The greatest fear that GDR citizens had was being slaughtered by the Ivans (again) if they dared to rise up. The memories of 17 June 1953 were still very strong.

MsG
Bugsy. There are very few people that I know (although in your case, not in the real world) that I would genuinely describe as marmite, but you are mate.
Away from the subject of politics, you post some informative and genuinely funny posts. You strike me as the typical paddy character tbh. Great to be on the pïss with but stay away from the subject of politics!
My grandad was a life long union man and socialist (lite). Yet he was married to a jewish liberal. Also; his best mate - and political sparring partner down the pub was his mate Albert. A black ex Merchant Seaman. Who held some extremely right wing views and opinions.
Humans. We're a bloody weird lot.
 
Name one "public service" that has "transferred" to the private sector and cost billions more.
Water privatisation. But then that's what happens when you hand a regionalised monopoly to the private sector - it's not an area where competition can work.

Water privatisation in England and Wales - Wikipedia

"Tariffs increased by 46% in real terms during the first nine years;
operating profits increased +142% in the first eight years,"
 

DaManBugs

LE
Book Reviewer
So you've accepted that Communism/socialism failed in the Soviet Union, Eastern Europe, China etc. It's thoroughly discredited and Marxist-Leninism is a totally failed ideology.......an yet you 'still believe' and make constant excuses/denials about the treachery of the far-left while trying make some kind of moral equivalence with the right.................. do you not see the dichotomy?
There is no dichotomy. Have you ever read anything from me defending the GDR political system? You haven’t because I’ve never done it. The GDR was not a truly Socialist state. There are a number of reasons for that, but the most important is that the ideology was forcibly imposed from above. How often do I have to state that? It’s never going to work under those circumstances.

But just because the GDR, the Soviet Union and all the rest of the so-called “Socialist/Communist” countries doomed themselves to failure because they all did exactly the same doesn’t mean that, by extension, the Marxist-Leninist ideology doctrine is also a failure. If a large enough majority in any country opts to adopt Socialism, then there’s every chance it can succeed because folks will have an active interest in it.

I’m also not sure on your point about “treachery”. I’m pretty certain there are Brits who absolutely hate the place and all it represents – what with all the wars, death and destruction the UK has caused over the centuries. Are they “traitors” too? Which cosmic law states that you automatically have to vow undying allegiance to the country in which you just happened to be born? It’s a purely man-made construct to actually force folks into the right “mindset” and then, quite perversely, punish them if they don’t. In my personal opinion, such an “allegiance” should work both ways. Which means that if you owe the state allegiance, then the state owes it to you. But we’ve seen time and again that it never happens that way. The wounded squaddies back from the Napoleonic Wars, WWI, WWII, the Aden Emergency, the Borneo Emergency, the Six Counties, etc. They all got mightily shat on and simply forgotten. But look what happened when that gormless gobshite Mark Thatcher got lost in the desert during some African rally. Destroyers were deployed, the FAA had wokkas out looking for him. They don’t do that for Josephine or Joe Normal, only for their “own kind”.

And what about the traitors in the political parties? They swear to do their best for the population, to increase living standards, wages, well-being, etc. But do they do that? Are they not betraying the whole UK population with their callous indifference to the suffering they cause, just so their rich friends can become even richer? Is that not a far greater betrayal?

MsG
 
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Which cosmic law states that you automatically have to vow undying allegiance to the country in which you just happened to be born? It’s a purely man-made construct to actually force folks into the right “mindset” and then, quite perversely, punish them if they don’t.

MsG
You are trolling now surely.

It’s a purely man-made construct to actually force folks into the right “mindset” and then, quite perversely, punish them if they don’t.
Which mass grave to socialism shall we talk about?

Oh, wait. All those people were murdered by people who hadn't got socialism right.

So they were not the victims of socialism.

I'm getting the hang of this game now.
 
Water privatisation. But then that's what happens when you hand a regionalised monopoly to the private sector - it's not an area where competition can work.

Water privatisation in England and Wales - Wikipedia

"Tariffs increased by 46% in real terms during the first nine years;
operating profits increased +142% in the first eight years,"
From your own source.

At privatisation the industry's £4.95 billion debt was written retained as public debt

So we(the tax payers) were coughing up billions before privatisation.

A World Bank paper in 1997 argued that the reforms had

  • increased investment (in the six years after privatisation the companies invested £17bn, compared to £9.3bn in the six years before privatisation),
  • brought about compliance with stringent drinking water standards and
  • led to a higher quality of river water.[4]
Private investment has far outweighed public investment and produced a better service.
My question to Bugsy is still valid and still unanswered.
 
There you go again with 'whataboutism' Bugsy - making excuses - and if you expect the world to ignore the crimes of Communism because those Soviet/Chinese/Eastern Block dictatorships were "the wrong sort of Communism" and that the basic dogma is still valid then you have to equally dismiss the crimes of Nazi Germany. Fascist Italy or Imperial Japan as immaterial because 'that was the wrong kind of Fascism/Nationalism' and that nowhere has truly implemented National Socialism - no? Then I'd check your moral compass

You defend the DDR on a regular basis - every time your rose-tinted memories of DDR are challenged you go into full defensive Bugsy mode and drag in total irrelevant 'western crimes' that absolves the credo you espouse for any responsibility. Or blather that the DDR was a victim of some 'western military-industrial conspiracy'

Your dogma blinds you and when challenged...... well look how you behaved over this photo

1519072044073.png

You said you definitely knew the woman had been hit, you had proof, she'd said so.......it was part of your socialist faith - if you'd been duped it would damage your belief system. Turns out both subjects deny any contact was made - you were given multiple chances to row-back and admit you were wrong - but no, you can't bring yourself to accept the truth - why is that?

Your generation, the one that gave us Corbyn and the whole useless 'socialist' movement of the '68ers has failed, it's ideals collapsed in 1991, just face it, it's not 'evil Capitalism' it's not 'capitalism' 'racism' or any other such excuse - just a failed doctrine that's only monuments will be a few tasteless statues and many mass graves.
 
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DaManBugs

LE
Book Reviewer

Well, they'd be able to with a 146% increase in profits from a 46% increase in tariffs... think about it.
And that's exactly what's wrong with privatisation. You can be sure that those allleged investments were made after they'd paid out the shareholder dividends. And how high were they? What it they'd been invested too instead of being whisked away to some tax haven never to be seen again (at least not in the UK economy)? Privatisation always costs the taxpayer more. In addition, you can bet that if the privatised water companies hadn't been able to realise the profits they envisaged, they'd have just chucked it in and left the taxpayer (again) to pick up the tab. Private care-home companies do it, private health companies do it and recently Virgin and Stagecoach did it with the east line (or whatever it's called). That's the point I was making about accountability.

MsG
 
A friend kindly loaned me that.

I have enjoyed many of Professor Andrew's books, starting with his Secret Service. Without which we arguably would not have national security studies within modern history or international relations studies.

His works on the Soviet era intelligence services are pretty horrifying really, when you read what they got up. Which is why I could never understand why people like Philby could be loyal to a regime when he saw it recall and purge his talented (and loyal) handlers.

But I supposed you believe in the final inevitable victory, a few speed bumps along the way are a price to pay. As long as that speedbump is someone else.
And my supervisor at Cambridge. Decent chap.
 
Go back to the 1970's and she was a babe!

1519074802859.png


In a sort of psychotic bunny-boiling right-on Marxist way........but still.........
 
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This socialism = communism model all you chest beaters seem to be running with is beyond reductive, it's retarded.

You realise we have lived in a socialist society, with state welfare, education, health services etc for some time, no gulags, genocide, pogroms or tumbrels necessary
 
I am having difficulty imagining Diane Abbot as a slinky Russian spy
I’m having difficulty imagining her as anything other than a repulsively fat, gormless, comically innumerate, racist hypocrite who can’t think on her feet (or off them), develops mysterious ‘illnesses’ under the slightest pressure and has absolutely no business being within whining distance of one of the highest offices of state.
 

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