Coppers and squaddies...

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by Shotgun, Dec 17, 2003.

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  1. My sons girlfreind has just joined the coppers a few weeks ago and today she was told that on Sunday she is being measured up for three new uniforms and body armour. She can expect to be issued them within the month but BEFORE she finishes training.

    Hold on, is this the same country where squaddies can be sent to war without uniforms and basic equipment? Where the OBJECT of the war is to deny NBC capability to the country we are invading, but the men get no, or inadequate NBC kit, and tanks get NO NBC cannisters?

    I suppose there must be more votes in providing gear for coppers than squaddies, or less loss of votes for dead squaddies, or maybe squaddies are more expendable than coppers... :evil:
  2. (Sticks head above parapet)

    The police have a highly effective federation.

    (Retracts head)
  3. That is because the police know what their funding is each year as it comes from council tax, as well as all the the funding they get for independant projects!!
  4. Althought the big dent made in the total budget by the Bush visit might mean only two uniforms per officer next year.....

    Or perhaps we'll just get sh*fted and see the Council tax go through the roof to cover the loses....
  5. If they go through the roof ..I'm well buggered i live in top flat!!! :D
  6. No, you're right. I'm afraid we have no choice but to put up with it and keep going. No excuse for non-existent kit, and I'm also going to stick my head over the parapet - but squaddies are also made of sterner stuff.
  7. I agree, knowing a few coppers, but sterner stuff won't save you from blood agent...
  8. Also (Heh! How 'mercan is that beginning a sentence with 'also'?) they are bound by civillian health and safety laws and not the joke version the MoD uses where you cannot take them to the cleaners for not issuing you the correct protective gear when it is their responsability (as your employer) to do so.
  9. Also she has been measured for her uniform so its comming from either a central supplier or a company who have a regular demand from the police for body armour etc. Not the surge supplying thats needed for major operations.

    Yes I would say the Federation is useful as is case law under the he health and safety at work act. I would love to see someone take the MOD to court for failure to provide protective equipment over Tellic. Since the loss of crown immunity the H&S at work act applies hence the ITD devoted to it.
  10. You've missed the point SG. Different budgets. Each Constabulary pays for it's own Body Armour (stab proof vest not ballistic vest as it sounds). The money comes from the taxpayer through local governemnt (county council). Also, coppers face it every day, squaddies don't mate. The best chance of a squaddies getting stabbed is when he is out on the piss. It is unlikely to occur during his working day. The use of knives and sharp implements against the police has risen over the years and is quite high at this point in time (pardon the pun). We are asked to risk it evry now and then. Coppers are asked to risk it daily.

    That doesn't excuse the MoD's obligation to provide us with the necessary protection though.
  11. Peeeooiinng......damn I missed him! Jethro.............git the dawgz.
  12. "you cannot take them to the cleaners for not issuing you the correct protective gear when it is their responsability (as your employer) to do so."

    Only on operations (and maybe some work up training). Otherwise they are just as liable as any other employer. Which is why the MoD compensation bill is large and getting larger.
  13. A coppers view:

    Yeah we get issued with armour early on in an our service, but then again we are at constant risk (however low level at times) of attack from either knife or firearm.

    Don't know what the county's use but in London we use METVEST which is designed to counter both blades and firearms. (all though it is recognised that against proper ammunition, rather than the crap villians used it cannot be guaranteed to work as it says on the box) It is tons lighter than military armour and is made of reinforced layers of nylon. Undersome circumstances it has been found to be a bouyancy (?) aid and guards against blunt trauma. It also acts as additional PLCE when in the overt vest and cuts down on clutter on the belt.

    Don't however fall into the trap of loving the Health and Safety executive. They have made everything we do about 5 times more fraught. As a supervisor I spend most of the day making risk assessments and would have to continue doing so, even if under fire (and filling in the dreaded form 3166 Operational Risk assessment) justifying every decison I made.

    On top of this a Human Rights Act risk assessment has also to be made spelling out that its a bad idea to get caught lying because you will loose the job and that its proportionate to arrest a rapist beacuse he may offend again. At the same time I would be recording all these decisions in my Incident management log justifying everything I did or did not do, and add to that a crime scene log spelling out my forensic responsbilities and then my own Incident Report book for court....................

    Don't even go the HSE way !!!!
  14. one of the strange. there is a problem witht he MOD's compensation bill going up? I am well aware it diverts resources from kit etc but the MOD is an employer like mcdonalds etc. And therefore has obligations to its staff. I gaurntee if you break health and safety at work the MOD will take action against you so when they breach it why shouldn't you take action against them it is the only way they will learn. I am aware that some of the legislation is ridiculious to apply to the armed forces. But failure to provide protective kit IE body armour, NBC kit, Medical countermeasures, Protective equipment, Weapons to troops going to fight a war is criminal and the Idiots who took descisions to deprive troops of this kit should be held accountable for their actions.
    What the MOD is saying by not providing this kit is we don't care about you. You are not important to us.