Convoys to Stand and Fight

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by old_bloke, Apr 6, 2006.

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  1. New idea from the Americans. it seems that driving away from the Ambush is a bad idea as it gives the nasties the idea you are "running" away.

    So they will now provide a
    Does that men even a greater amount of rounds expended for the same result i.e. dead and wounded civis who just happened to be passing by.


    http://www.military.com/features/0,15240,92896,00.html?ESRC=dod-b.nl
     
  2. Sound tactical judgement , or pride over-ruling common sense?

    Stand and fight sounds good , as long as you have Fast Air on call , or overwhelming firepower available , but this decision to force a 'set piece' engagement I think will end in tears.

    Granted a lot of the opposition may well be rag-tag disorganised 'terrorists' but some of Red Team , are going to be really really good and really have their s*** together.

    In the worst case , is the loss in men and materiel really going to be worth the face-saving?

    Are we going to see a return to the Vietnam-era Gun Trucks , and Spads on call?
     
  3. Well the enemy know you are going to run away , thw whole idea of an ambush is that you
    are sprung in their killing area. You have nothing to lose by standing and fighting. Its basic
    soldiering to fight through an ambush . As for the ''dead and wounded civvies '' well as most
    of you will know that lack of civvies is a major ''combat indicator'' so there is a good chance
    that there will be few innocents about . Lets face facts here if you are in an ''ambush'' the
    most important thing on your mind is saving your mates and your own arrses.
     
  4. Looking at a UK perspective:

    Surely to stand and fight you need firepower. How does that fit in with the "let's look nice to the locals and remove belt fed weapons from patrols"?

    Is 'standing and fighting' against winning 'hearts and minds'?
     
  5. Does this mean they're going to turn the wagons over and fire at the nasties through the spokes of the wheels like John Wayne?
     
  6. We do have Belt fed weapons on Patrols (mounted ) out of site out of mind . We also have air cover
    on the convoys .
     
  7. I'm surprised these havent appeared already, trucks complete with miniguns in turrets hidden by canvas. Would keep the insurgents guessing.
     
  8. Really? We weren't allowed them out, unless there was an identifiable threat. Must be a unit to unit thing.
     
  9. What - you mean the Boss wouldn't let YOU out !!!!!! :lol:
     
  10. Q-Convoys armed to the teeth looking for a drama to happen?

    Might have an effect , until insurgent intelligence get their people to tell them which convoys are soft , and which are actually a one way trip to sherbert and raisins.

    I don't think you can dramatically ramp up the number of convoys , but replacing the odd scheduled convoy with one that's a bit tastier might be the answer?
     
  11. msr

    msr LE

    You can make them as tasty as you like, but when was the last time a convoy was engaged by a set-piece ambush?

    Only the (most self-selectingly) stupid terrorist will try an full-on direct contact, which is why we are at home to Mr IED and Mr EFP.

    msr
     
  12. Plus have you seen the size of the Yank convoys?

    Mind you ours are not much smaller these days. Thing is, like MSR so rightly points out, its not a good idea to take on a normal convoy (of any nationality) as you are going to be out-gunned most of the time. Hence the reliance on our friends Mr's IED and EFP. Patrols are another thing all-together and taking one of those on is not always a suicide pact if you have done your homework - bearing in mind they have the element of surprise, know the ground, can pre-postition ammo/heavier kit/booby-traps, plan arcs/kill-zones, have escape routes and the list goes on and on............

    Not all of these loons are badly trained/dressed/equiped nut-cases some are exactly the opposite - well trained/dressed/equiped nut-cases and are quite capable of pulling of some spectacular sh!t................

    Or am I giving them too much credit? Dunno, I do know, If I was told to stand and fight if hit on, I'd be wanting to see a hell of a lot of support in a postition that allows it to get to me very, very quickly.......................
     
  13. I think it was covered elsewhere on here, but one of the problems pointed out was that the Yanks cannot or will not deviate from Orders.

    Whereas the Brit Comd on the ground can make the necessary call on the ground drive or fight through dependant on circumstances.

    There cannot be one SOP to cover all eventualities, (come on, secondary IED etc)

    thats my tuppence
     
  14. That's a good find. My favourite bit was

    "For every one round they fire at us, we send back a thousand."

    Classic American tactics.