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Contract Driver Training

#1
DST is the most expensive way known to man for producing drivers.

Points

Soldier needs Cat C
In unit on contract 5 days
DST 4 weeks

In unit no T and S cost
DST days off before he goes, hire car both ways, (damage to hire car) we just had to pay for a chip on a windscreen, that the driver assures us he did not see, before or after. 250 quid, Fuel for hire car both ways. costs to run blocks at DST. costs to run arrogant admin staff at DST. endless

In unit peer pressure to do well and threat of facing MTO or similar to face music.
DST you fail, you can stay up there with your new chick and go on the pi55, on RTU they can come up with load of Boll lar keys as to why they didn’t make it.

In Unit they fail the test, MoD don’t pay
DST they fail, we have to look after them, unable to do their job for six months and do it all again.

I hear Contract Driver Training is on the way out. Because DST couldnt manage it well enough. Makes Eye Larf

No wonder civvies think we are wasters of public cash.

Even at DST the squadies refer to the HQ as the Land that time forgot or the dinasaurs grave yard, as there are so many RO's there, with their heads up their own arrse holes. Happy Easter Bah
 
#2
What happened to the good old days of the QTO and a few trips out in a vehicle then without telling you it was a test, with no nerves you passed. Now its Contract driver - fam training - Cat C contract - fam trg - C + E Contract and fam.
 
#3
BadUn said:
DST is the most expensive way known to man for producing drivers.
So expensive that the civvy company that want to take it over under DTR are having affordability issues!

BadUn said:
Soldier needs Cat C
In unit on contract 5 days
DST 4 weeks.
Very little (If any) Cat C driver training is done under contract

BadUn said:
In unit no T and S cost
DST days off before he goes, hire car both ways, (damage to hire car) we just had to pay for a chip on a windscreen, that the driver assures us he did not see, before or after. 250 quid, Fuel for hire car both ways. costs to run blocks at DST. costs to run arrogant admin staff at DST. endless.
The hire cars are in all probabilty obtained by MOD at a very cheap rate. The chip in the in the windscreen I can't comment on, although would he have told you if he had noticed? £250 for fuel, it's only 266 miles from dover, what did he come in?

BadUn said:
In unit peer pressure to do well and threat of facing MTO or similar to face music.
DST you fail, you can stay up there with your new chick and go on the pi55, on RTU they can come up with load of Boll lar keys as to why they didn’t make it.
Over 90% of people who come through the gates at DST leave with the licence they came for. If they are RTU'd it's normally for 1 of 2 Reasons.

1. They genuinely cannot drive, it does happen. Although men normally think that all women cannot drive, we do sometimes come across men who just cannot drive.

2. Discipline reasons. (i.e smelling of booze)

BadUn said:
In Unit they fail the test, MoD don’t pay
DST they fail, we have to look after them, unable to do their job for six months and do it all again.
MOD do pay. No driving instructor would invest time in a student and not get paid for it. Even the civvy instructors (as opposed to those on the MOD payroll) at DST teaching Cat B receive a payment for students that do not pass if the student takes over a set amount of hours to pass, they get paid and the student is moved on to one of the driver training sections.

BadUn said:
I hear Contract Driver Training is on the way out. Because DST couldnt manage it well enough. Makes Eye Larf.
Don't hold your breath. Cat B training will be still done under contract, all Cat C, C+E and D is going to Leconfield

BadUn said:
Even at DST the squadies refer to the HQ as the Land that time forgot or the dinasaurs grave yard, as there are so many RO's there, with their heads up their own arrse holes. Happy Easter Bah
The RO as we know him is becoming a rarity. “The Land that time forgot” now that one I do like.
 
#4
Taffnp said:
What happened to the good old days of the QTO and a few trips out in a vehicle then without telling you it was a test, with no nerves you passed. Now its Contract driver - fam training - Cat C contract - fam trg - C + E Contract and fam.
Legally you can not be tested by the same person who conducted your training. The good old QTO was normally someone in unit, if the CO wanted more drivers, he got more people with driving licences. Not always more drivers,

I'm afriad it's all down to health and safety nowadays.
 
#5
Contract driving instructors teach you to pass your test, in house military driving instructors teach you how to drive, there's a vast difference.
In my unit (TA) 90% of all driver training for cat B, C, C+E is carried out by civi contractors.
 
#6
As someone who has the pleasure of all 3 types of instruction I feel I am able to pass comment.

I passed my HGV 3 at Leconfield in the early eighties and was taught to drive by a civvy (MOD employed) instructor.

I went to my first unit and was fam'd up on an AEC 10 tonner and then given my HGV 2 by (the Same) Military instructor.

I was then taught on two occasions to drive C+E by very good military instructors. Although because of the nature of the training (It was a Blag) I was never given the time to train to test standard.

In the late nineties I went back to Leconfield and was once again taught by a Civvy (MOD) instructor to pass C+E on a draw bar trailer (a vehicle which I could already legally drive). I passed my test and had the 102 restriction on my license removed, so I could drive articulated vehicles (A vehicle which I had never driven).

On my resettlement I went to a civvy firm and paid for another driving course, so I could learn how to drive an articulated vehicle (although I didn't need the test). Throughout this training I felt sorry for my co driver who was also paying for his training. As he was left in no doubt that he had 1 shot at passing or he would be dipping his hand in his pocket to pay for another test.

I feel I have received training from both good and bad Military instructors and good and bad civvy instructors. I now work at DST as an instructor and am fully aware that some of my colleges are good instructors and some and not so good instructors.
 
#7
costs to run arrogant admin staff at DST. endless
Are they more expensive than polite ones then? :D
 
#8
raggyavn said:
In the late nineties I went back to Leconfield and was once again taught by a Civvy (MOD) instructor to pass C+E on a draw bar trailer (a vehicle which I could already legally drive). I passed my test and had the 102 restriction on my license removed, so I could drive articulated vehicles (A vehicle which I had never driven)..
Well thats very interesting, So you used public money to have your restriction 102 lifted at leconfield, even though you didnt need it. A waste of public cash, now you work at DST and are defending the waste of cash. Suspicious to say the least.

The point I was trying to make is, it is more expensive to do the training in cash terms and time terms, for us to send our troops to DST.
 
#9
dingerr said:
costs to run arrogant admin staff at DST. endless
Are they more expensive than polite ones then? :D
They probably are..... But I get your drift, you know how it can get when you are ranting over something that is out of your control.
 
#10
DST is a waste of time ,RLC get priority for courses, you get mucked around, lots! Contract training on the other hand ,you get treated with respect, you then work harder and enjoy the training. Its done local so you dont have to send troops miles away, another cost saving win win :D
 
#11
At last a person that agrees with me, was getting paranoid
 
E

EScotia

Guest
#13
Sorry, but I don't agree with you. All trg establishments get stick from students, its inevitable. I have been fortunate enough to have been at ASMT (fore runner to DST) as permanent staff and blagged my HGV 1 (CAT C+E) before leaving.
I also went back, briefly, as a civvy instructor before leaving for more money. When I was there I met loads of excellent instructors & a few crap ones (mainly those ones who you would see getting bacon sarnies, a cup of tea & 3 packets of extra strong mints before reporting for work 8O ). They were overshadowed by the young students with poor attitudes who would not listen, only wanted to go out on the pizz, slept when not driving instead of observing & learning etc, etc :x
If DST was not producing results within the parameters of their contract (they are an agency after all), the MoD would soon fire a warning shot across their bows.
Leconfield lorry ran over your dog did it BadUn :?
 
#14
Point missed, my friend.

I am saying that it costs too much, compared to contracts

Never slagged the Civi instructors,they do a sterling job - check back.
Just the rule makers and the Admin nazis
 
#15
Civi contract driving instructor turns up at your unit on a Monday morning, by close of play the same day he's pestering you to put the student up for test the following day. He must be the worlds best instructor landed with the worlds best driver.
1 fuckin day to teach cat C ? Talk about keeping death on the road...
 
#16
lacrabat said:
Civi contract driving instructor turns up at your unit on a Monday morning, by close of play the same day he's pestering you to put the student up for test the following day. He must be the worlds best instructor landed with the worlds best driver.
1 * day to teach cat C ? Talk about keeping death on the road...
1 day is a bit of a pi55 take but i have felt confident with experienced CAT B drivers at the end of day 2, usually by day 3 they are ready for test and day 4/5 possibly test passed (if we can find a DDE)
As we all know some individual's are unable to learn that fast but some pick things up very fast.
I'm sure these contractors don't want to "sausage factory" guys/girls into gaining their licences, but as it says contractors they are contracted to do this!

There's my 10 pence worth :D
 
#17
My experience of contract driver training with a certain well known N Irish company involved 4 students on a bus. Day 1 we all drove (really badly) for 1 hour each. Day 2 I had a late start (1330 hrs) along with student 2 and drove for another hour. As we had a crack at the reversing the local DDE popped down to ask our instructor what time he could do the tests on Friday as he was pushed to get 4 tests in. Instructor pointed to me and said "give him a go now". I didn't even know the safety questions so instructor quickly went over the points seconds before the test. Unbelievably I passed and now have a bus licence. I must be the best driver in the world. Or have been subject to the most corrupt driver training system in the world. Tickets please!!!

DST is far from perfect and attitude seems compulsory amongst instructors (who think the army owes them a living) and possibly the most obnoxious bunch of recruits I've ever met (sweeping statement). However there is a standard and it's better than getting robbed by local contracts.
 
#18
lacrabat said:
Civi contract driving instructor turns up at your unit on a Monday morning, by close of play the same day he's pestering you to put the student up for test the following day. He must be the worlds best instructor landed with the worlds best driver.
1 * day to teach cat C ? Talk about keeping death on the road...
Dont know where you are stationed but it dont work like that for us

Thats Colly
London
Shornecliffe and Aldershot

The Delta tell the Contractor when the test is
 
#19
It's the ways and means act. As a DDE I've lost count of the times people haven't turned up for test when the DELTA arranges only to end up taking them out when the contractor can make them available (not right but it does happen). You spread yourself pretty thin BadUn covering Colchester, London, Aldershot and Shorncliffe?
 
#20
Use_the_Force said:
My experience of contract driver training with a certain well known N Irish company involved 4 students on a bus. Day 1 we all drove (really badly) for 1 hour each. Day 2 I had a late start (1330 hrs) along with student 2 and drove for another hour. As we had a crack at the reversing the local DDE popped down to ask our instructor what time he could do the tests on Friday as he was pushed to get 4 tests in. Instructor pointed to me and said "give him a go now". I didn't even know the safety questions so instructor quickly went over the points seconds before the test. Unbelievably I passed and now have a bus licence. I must be the best driver in the world. Or have been subject to the most corrupt driver training system in the world. Tickets please!!!

DST is far from perfect and attitude seems compulsory amongst instructors (who think the army owes them a living) and possibly the most obnoxious bunch of recruits I've ever met (sweeping statement). However there is a standard and it's better than getting robbed by local contracts.
Different for buses as you probably already had a Cat C and some expeiriance. Not that I like that particular Company you are on about. They had their own set of rules in NI as it was a Command in its own right. LADSO 4409 covering the Mainland insists on a Driver Training Record that logs the hours behind the wheel. the students sign for those hours.

However this is about licence acquisition, DST and the Contractors are asked to get students through the Test. which they both do. The thread is about the cost to us the tax payer not how long it takes.Contracts are cheaper
 

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