Conservative flat tax proposal

#1
About bloody time! Why should someone who earns 40K have to pay proportionally more of their hard earnings than a cleaner in a corner shop. Should we not all contribute the same proportion of our wages, thus ensuring that we all pay an 'equal' amount?

Thoughts ladies and gentlemen???

The Tories are to launch a review of Britain's tax system with a view to simplifying it and possibly bringing in a "flat tax".

George Osborne, the shadow chancellor, will unveil a "special commission" on taxation this week, heralding the biggest shake-up in Tory tax policy for almost two decades.


In a speech to the Social Market Foundation think-tank, Mr Osborne will announce that he is considering the benefits of a flat tax - under which all exemptions and allowances are abolished and everyone pays the same rate.

The commission will be headed by a senior businessman, and will report next year on the way that such a tax system has worked in other countries and the viability of introducing it to Britain.

If a flat tax is adopted as Tory policy it will be the biggest shift since Nigel Lawson cut the top rate of income tax to 40 per cent in 1988. Conservative strategists are keen to avoid a replay of the stale argument they had with Labour at the general election about tax and spending cuts. They want to be able to present instead their tax policy as fresh and dynamic.

A flat tax system has been adopted in 11 countries, mostly in eastern Europe. But Mr Brown has remained implacably opposed to the idea, which would see the end of his tax credits system.
[c]Torygraph
 
#2
Brilliant idea - this is one of the reasons why the economies of Eastern Europe have flourished.

Advantages:
*can't be easily cheated
*Is fair - everyone pays a flat rate over a tax-free allowance, none of this "proportionately more" bollox.
*stimulates economic growth because the overall rate is slightly lower, increases tax revenues because disincentives to work due to higher rates are removed (google "Laffer curve"), and due to it not being cheatable
*reduces admin costs for businesses
*Tax return is simply "How much did you earn over £x,000?"

Tax advisors will hate the idea though, obviously
 
#3
stoatman said:
Brilliant idea - this is one of the reasons why the economies of Eastern Europe have flourished.

Advantages:
*can't be easily cheated
*Is fair - everyone pays a flat rate over a tax-free allowance, none of this "proportionately more" bollox.
*stimulates economic growth because the overall rate is slightly lower, increases tax revenues because disincentives to work due to higher rates are removed (google "Laffer curve"), and due to it not being cheatable
*reduces admin costs for businesses
*Tax return is simply "How much did you earn over £x,000?"

Tax advisors will hate the idea though, obviously
Of course they will hate it, it'll mean us mortals will have a chance of understanding how much we are 'actually' being charged on our earnings. :D
 
#4
It's another policy that would play to those who are going to vote for them anyway. It wouldn't help the Tories win back the centre ground IMHO, whether that's a good thing or not.

Perhaps that's a difference between them and Labour? That they'll propose things they believe in, rather than what the focus groups say will win them the most votes.
 
#5
superfurryanimal said:
It's another policy that would play to those who are going to vote for them anyway. It wouldn't help the Tories win back the centre ground IMHO, whether that's a good thing or not.

Perhaps that's a difference between them and Labour? That they'll propose things they believe in, rather than what the focus groups say will win them the most votes.
I think this may attract a larger number of people who are already bamboozled by the tax maze that we all face now.

Whatever happened to lower taxes? Labour replaced them with tax rebates. ie, we take you money (when we don't need to), invest it and make a profit, then give it back to you in tax credits. :roll:

what a responsible way to run an economy!
 
#6
Utterly irrelevant.

The Tories are no further away from being seen as the nasty party than they ever were. And with the institutional bias that exists in the popular media, they are stuck with that forever.

In addition to that, over the last few years they have proved themselves incapable of running a whelk stall

I despair. What is someone who is a social and economic liberal to do? If I had any religious belief, I would say 'God help us all.' As it is, I vote UKIP simply in order to make mischief.
 
#7
Tha last figures I saw proposed by the Adam Smith Institute on personal tax, suggsted the following for UK Flate Rate Tax.
First £12,000 and below No, tax to be paid.
Everything above £12,000 tax paid at 22%.
No exemptions for anything, none ,zero, zilch.
john
 
#8
excellent idea and about time

have lived in a flat tax country and regardless of the ecomonic half wits seem to think, it works

for those who seem chained to their socialist paradise myths, perhaps they can put up a coherent arguement aside from, "ah, fecking tories, useless gits, blah,....."
 
#9
Agent_Smith said:
About bloody time! Why should someone who earns 40K have to pay proportionally more of their hard earnings than a cleaner in a corner shop. ]
... balls. The poor pay a far higher proportion - think of VAT.

I for one would be up for a genuinely flat rate, if we could get rid of unfair and disproportionate taxes, so that those of us on the average wage or less could stop subsidising the rich.

PS I vote for a ten year jail term for tax dodging, dole cheating and all other forms of theft from the state (except taking compo tea bags home, obviously)
 
#10
Steamywindow said:
Agent_Smith said:
About bloody time! Why should someone who earns 40K have to pay proportionally more of their hard earnings than a cleaner in a corner shop. ]
... balls. The poor pay a far higher proportion - think of VAT.

I for one would be up for a genuinely flat rate, if we could get rid of unfair and disproportionate taxes, so that those of us on the average wage or less could stop subsidising the rich.

PS I vote for a ten year jail term for tax dodging, dole cheating and all other forms of theft from the state (except taking compo tea bags home, obviously)
If they are genuinely poor, then a lot of what they buy constitutes essentials of life are is thus not subject to VAT. If they choose to spend it on booze, fags, Kappa tracksuits & nike trainers that's their perogative.

And your second comment - "subsidising the rich"? That's a pretty twisted way of looking at it. Just because they have less taken from them (due to exploiting loopholes) does NOT equate to a subsidy. You make it sound like poor people GIVE money to the rich.
 
#11
jonwilly said:
No exemptions for anything, none ,zero, zilch.
john
And the prospects of politicians being able to leave a really simple scheme alone, without meddling with it? About the same.....

msr
 
#12
Hey I'm poor, I lose about 25% of my Pay in taxes, then I have huge council tax bills piled on top of it. I'd be better off unemployed, and letting you lot pay for me...

jonwilly said:
Tha last figures I saw proposed by the Adam Smith Institute on personal tax, suggsted the following for UK Flate Rate Tax.
First £12,000 and below No, tax to be paid.
Everything above £12,000 tax paid at 22%.
No exemptions for anything, none ,zero, zilch.
john
Out fecking standing. That instantly saves me about £400 a month. I'm eligable for ax credits... Eligable for £0.00. Thanks alot Mr bloody Brown.

BTW VAT, it's placed on white goods, no? So a fridge and washing machine catch VAT, as do (most?) Utillities. Those are essentials of life... no? anyway, after a breif scan of the web, it seems there are no exeptions to VAT, just normal rate of 17.5% and a reduced rate of 5%.
 
#13
Listy,

Currently the most important zero-rated goods are:

* Most food (not alcohol, soft drinks, confectionery and crisps and meals out)
* Construction of new dwellings
* Domestic passenger transport
* Books, newspapers and magazines
* Medicines on prescription
* Children's clothing

msr
 
#14
Am all for it - besides, think of all the tax inspectors you could "retire" in the process!!!!
 

maninblack

LE
Book Reviewer
#15
I would welcome flat tax rates as long as they were introduced alongside an abolition of the current benefit system and the introduction of a logical welfare state that focused on welfare to work and a decent level of support for the genuinely needy.
 
#16
msr said:
* Construction of new dwellings
* Domestic passenger transport
And if you wan't to buy a house how much tax gets slapped on it? The first time buyers tax? VAT on the solicter's fee's, possibly stamp duty, etc.
Transport? Under funded and crap. Those will require fuel to operate and with the govenment makeing a killing of fuel that cost is passed on to the ticket price. No? Or does the transport company bite the bullet and take the loss?
 
#17
Steamywindow said:
Agent_Smith said:
About bloody time! Why should someone who earns 40K have to pay proportionally more of their hard earnings than a cleaner in a corner shop. ]
... balls. The poor pay a far higher proportion - think of VAT.

I for one would be up for a genuinely flat rate, if we could get rid of unfair and disproportionate taxes, so that those of us on the average wage or less could stop subsidising the rich.

PS I vote for a ten year jail term for tax dodging, dole cheating and all other forms of theft from the state (except taking compo tea bags home, obviously)
zzzzzzzz


that old argument. VAT is a tax on the value of a commodity. Just because a person on 40K can afford to buy more of something than someone on 12K doesn't mean VAT is unfair. We all pay the same flat rate of VAT which is 17.5% therefore we all pay exactly the same proportion of our wages as VAT. The only variable is how much we decide to buy. Whats unfair about that?
 
#18
OK. These arrse current affair debates tend to be pretty bland and one sided. So, for a bit of Devil's advocate stuff:

I know nothing of politics or the pro-anti a single tax rate. Some pro and anti arguments please.

No Pointless rants or Blair's a cnut crap.
 
#19
StabTiffy2B said:
No Pointless rants or Blair's a cnut crap.
Okay, can I point out that Mandelson's a cnut instead?

jonwilly said:
Tha last figures I saw proposed by the Adam Smith Institute on personal tax, suggsted the following for UK Flate Rate Tax.
First £12,000 and below No, tax to be paid.
Everything above £12,000 tax paid at 22%.
No exemptions for anything, none ,zero, zilch.
john
In all seriousness, I think this is a non-starter. This would mean those earning under £12,000pa taking home all their wages, those earning £12,000 to £15,385 earning less than them! Nobody on a low wage would want to work harder, just to take home less. It sounds unfair to me, and I can't see this giving the economy much of a boost. If there is to be a point at which the 22% comes in, it's going to distort things somewhat IMHO.

Unless it was a flat rate for everyone, no matter how low their earnings (I'm not saying I agree with this), It sounds unworkable to me.
 
#20
What are you jabbering about? say you earnt £12010 under the proposed sistem. You'd pay £2.20 in tax. You are only taxed on ther amount exceeding the £12000.
 

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