Conscription

#1
Isnt it about time the Government Re-introduced Conscription, how bad does crime and the lack of discapline have to get in the UK before something is done to improve it. Every time you open a paper or turn on the news you here thinks like Old age pensioner beat for 80p or latest mobile phone video of youths happy slapping a 90 year old man. How bad do things have to get before something is done about it.
 
#2
conscription isnt the answer, the military sure dont want the hassle of dealing of all that ignorant chav class scum.

whats needed is better 'correctional training', like work farms for young offenders, get them out digging spuds all day in thie fields, electronic tagging is a good idea, the only ploblem is it isnt restrictive enough to be a real 'deterrent punishment', it needs a ball and chain attached to it, painted in bright yellow.
 
#4
Glad to be of service, Sir, but what could we do with them that the Courts and Probation Service cannot achieve?

For the most part, those who join the Services want to be there, but a good proportion shouldn't be there and we have to lose them. Adding more would only complicate matters, IMHO.

Litotes
 
#5
How about some form of 'military type' organisation that can run as an alternative to prison? Could be staffed by ex Forces. That way they are out of the way from the Forces proper yet can have proper military discipline put into them? I thought that that Brat camp thing that was on TV recently had a good idea - keep the little sh*ts there indefinatly untill they reform, simple. Though of course then we have to deal with all the bleeding hearts human rights groups....



And (silly time) if needs be in the event of a national emergancy they can be para dropped into the enemy lines to slow them down :)
 
#6
DrStealth said:
conscription isnt the answer, the military sure dont want the hassle of dealing of all that ignorant chav class scum.

whats needed is better 'correctional training', like work farms for young offenders, get them out digging spuds all day in thie fields, electronic tagging is a good idea, the only ploblem is it isnt restrictive enough to be a real 'deterrent punishment', it needs a ball and chain attached to it, painted in bright yellow.
have to agree why give the forces more sh1te to deal with than it already has.

having voluntary picked spuds as a kid to earn cash & then suffered for the following 2 months after it i can see where you are coming from on that front, but would it change them.............................................i dont know :? :? :? :?
 
#7
Tagging is fine and could work , fit the tag round the neck and fill it with explosives , first breaking of the rules and bang , they only break the rules once
 
#8
conscription has been done to death many times before the Army dont want them, the culture of "doing your bit" in the 50s has gone, this is a new society with different values , so conscription is not the answer.
 
#9
DrStealth said:
whats needed is better 'correctional training', like work farms for young offenders, get them out digging spuds all day in thie fields, electronic tagging is a good idea, the only problem is it isnt restrictive enough to be a real 'deterrent punishment', it needs a ball and chain attached to it, painted in bright yellow.
I have a better idea ! much better idea ! have a homing beacon inside the house, indescructable and hidden, programmed to give out electric shocks if the Offender goes out of range of the beacon , it will only stop zapping if he cames back within range of the Beacon also stays within range during curfew hours, if out of range of during curfew hours more eletcric shocks awaits and increases with intensity the later he is :D

hows that for a fcuking brilliant idea ? we got the technology just a little application
 
#10
semper said:
DrStealth said:
whats needed is better 'correctional training', like work farms for young offenders, get them out digging spuds all day in thie fields, electronic tagging is a good idea, the only problem is it isnt restrictive enough to be a real 'deterrent punishment', it needs a ball and chain attached to it, painted in bright yellow.
I have a better idea ! much better idea ! have a homing beacon inside the house, indescructable and hidden, programmed to give out electric shocks if the Offender goes out of range of the beacon , it will only stop zapping if he cames back within range of the Beacon also stays within range during curfew hours, if out of range of during curfew hours more eletcric shocks awaits and increases with intensity the later he is :D

hows that for a fcuking brilliant idea ? we got the technology just a little application
now thats a good idea! the high capacity battery would be housed in the ball on the end of the chain.
 
#11
I'm in favour of conscription for two reasons. Firstly, it would introduce people to the Forces who would not currently think of joining - some of these may actually enjoy it and want to sign on either full-time or part-time, thereby increasing recruitment.

Secondly, one of the most frequent excuses given for crime is boredom, closely followed by unemployed. Military training will certainly prevent boredom, while a well-structured conscript training schedule, offering trade training rather than just basic training, will help to increase the employability of those who choose not to remain in uniform. It should also be remembered that conscription would catch a lot of people before (i.e. instead of) turning to crime.

In the event of a political blunder that requires extensive call-outs, there will also be various levels of "ready-reserve," (maybe not quite "ready," but requiring a shorter work-up than a new recruit), depending on how long it has been since people have been demobbed.

Conscription should, IMHO, take three forms:
1. Regular Conscription, where people serve for, say, 2 years full-time.
2.TA Conscription, where people commit to a TA style of service (probably with a mandatory higher number of weekends in the first 2 years) for, say, 5 years.
3. Penal Conscription for naughty people - similar to Regular Conscription but in some nice, out-of-the-way, place like FI with duration determined by the courts. Gets them off the streets and frees up jail space. Could also be quite effective for drug "victims."
 
#12
How about a variation on the German system?

At age 18 everyone and I mean every single person, no opt out for college, my dad is a politician etc excuses, gets given the option of 1 years military service or 2 years working for an aid agency.

A couple of years in some poverty ridden 3rd world shitehole might open the eyes of some of these Chavs as to just how fcuking easy life in the UK actually is.
 
#13
At the moment the average squaddie does 3 -4 years. Bearing in mind the time it takes to train someone, send them to a unit and start integrating them, at the end of the day we have an expensive conscript system of a voluntary type. The original National Service was 2 years, extended by 6 months between 1950 - 54 to cover Korea, Malaya etc until finally done away with in 1961.

I think we have 2 objectives. 1 to stop youths going off the rails and secondly to try and instil some kind of community and social values into a generation that for the main part is barely literate, doesn't give a t##s and wants everything yesterday. Whilst this doesn't apply to all youth, it is certainly on the increase in the larger cities and urban areas.

Old camps could be taken over out in the sticks and personnel sent there for 12 months after completing school at 16 or 18. The 12 month period would cover physical activity (stop the couch potatoes) literary skills (how to write a letter and read a higher standard than Green book 3), No video games, computers or mobiles (what will they do without texting?) and basic household chores like wiring a plug, changing a stop cock, washer on a tap among others.

This would at least give them some idea that there is life outside the screen and give them a sense of self worth which they don't get under our current school system or probably at home. :wink:
 
#14
Conscription is not the way ahead. The way ahead is to address the social fabric of this country. To make people responsible for their own actions; instead of blaming everyone else. To get rid of a compensation culture where tripping over a kerbstone will net you more cash than the victim of a crime receives. To have a legal system that gives out fair and representative punishments. Where criminals serve a tariff, and instead of being released for good behaviour their sentences are increased for bad behaviour. To have a country where prison is both a punishment and a rehabilitation, where luxuries are earned and the quality of life is not to be compared with that expected by those not in prison. To remove the lefty pinko ideas that destroys the idea of marriage being the norm and not an oddity. To remove the concept of being able to live on benefits, they are their as a safety net not a career option.

These are a few of the ways that I see as being an alternative to conscription. However if you increase the social responsibility of a nation and remove the "me, me, me" attitude that seems to permeate a large section of society then life can only improve.

Rant over!
 
#15
Its true that the armed forces can work apparent miracles instillling dsicipline and team work into wayward yourng men and women. But if the schools probation and prison services had the staffing levels that the armed forces enjoy, then it would be possible to shape our young people in the same way the army does. But which government wants to sell the idea of state schools with 5 teachers and assistants for each class of 30?

Reforming society isn't the purpose of the British armed forces, but its a positive by product that the public recognise and vale. So the restructuring of the armed forces to have fewer people looks like a lack of joined up government.
 
#16
Horridlittleman said:
Conscription is not the way ahead. The way ahead is to address the social fabric of this country. To make people responsible for their own actions; instead of blaming everyone else. To get rid of a compensation culture where tripping over a kerbstone will net you more cash than the victim of a crime receives. To have a legal system that gives out fair and representative punishments. Where criminals serve a tariff, and instead of being released for good behaviour their sentences are increased for bad behaviour. To have a country where prison is both a punishment and a rehabilitation, where luxuries are earned and the quality of life is not to be compared with that expected by those not in prison. To remove the lefty pinko ideas that destroys the idea of marriage being the norm and not an oddity. To remove the concept of being able to live on benefits, they are their as a safety net not a career option.

These are a few of the ways that I see as being an alternative to conscription. However if you increase the social responsibility of a nation and remove the "me, me, me" attitude that seems to permeate a large section of society then life can only improve.

Rant over!
Im with you on this one mate - well said. But could you imagine young Jermaine conscripted and sent on Op Telic 22 and getting slotted. The Human Rights lawyers would be all over the issue like a rash. The suicide rate would make Deepcut look like a drop in the ocean.
 
#17
Why should the British Army have the failures of Blair's not so Great Britain dumped on its door step?

The only person who would benefit from this would be Scum Blair himself, as he could introduce it and then blame the army for not sorting out the results of his failure of a government.

It was FM Lord Carver who said. "National service was good for the country, but it almost killed the army."
 
#18
Conscription isn't going to work now because the country is different from the way it was in the 50s. For conscription to work there needs to be an underlying respect for authority; i.e. you do something because someone senior has told you to. Don't see much of that nowadays. You can't get authority through force because there are more of them than you and their daily lives mean that they are psycho. And they know where you live. Conscription won't get them before they fall into crime unless you conscript at about 10 years old.

I'm afraid that there are no magic answers. The communist infiltration of our institutions in the 50s and 60s was too thorough.

C
 
#19
Judging reports here and in the media, we are not always suffessful in training those we get now. Training can only work if the student has a wish to learn. Any form of conscription introduced to the modern-day young person will be resisted. The more extreme ways of ensuring that they learned as practised in NS days are now outlawed. That is just the effort of training them.
Then it comes to employing them after training. Bear in mind there will be many resistant to conscription so they will require a large numnber of supervisors. We are short of trained soldiers already. If they are to be employed on projects, there will be a need for technically skilled trainers and more supervision. Where are these people coming from?
Any projects will have a cost. Doubtless, the conscripts will be employed as a minimum wage. There is also the cost of materials for whatever they do. Where is this money to be found? Where are the barracks to accommodate the conscripts.
What about those already trained but too old for conscription and those whose conscription period is past. They are likely to be unemployed because more work is being done by by the young crusaders.
How would you manage discipline in the conscripted force? Civilian prisons are almost full to physical capacity. We have process to get rid of soldiers who are no use. Conscripts will willingly commit crime so as to get chucked out.
All this to overcome a problem that is capable of being largely solved by better application of existing procedures and laws/sentencing.
 
#20
As said already there is no respect for authority if told to do something the answer is likely to be "nah get fcuked man" ..."what yah ganna do bout it" and short of knocking seven bell's out of them what can you do?? ROP's?? not likely with the human rights act and Bliar??

As soon as Wayne or Charmaine was told to do something they would either be over the fence or on the phone to their chav mother who would rock up at the gate shellsuit and bling clad spouting "eee ain't dahn naffin leave 'im alone thats bullying that iz" I believe the last has already happened at at least one of the ATR's already.

A scheme might work if ran by the prison service using ex-mil instructors for even the minor chav's for six months or so.
 

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