Confused Spaniards vote for EU charter

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by Agent_Smith, Feb 21, 2005.

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    Nice to see that the population knew what they were voting for. I just hope that Mr Blairs campaign for a yes vote will not be used in order to bamboozle the voters into thinking it is something that it isnt.

  2. Excellent! An excuse to post this:

  3. And Charles Moore is optomistic about the bloody thing.
  4. Heard over the weekend that even if they vote the constitution in it will not be legally binding *WTF* but it will be in the UK, great thinking Brussels.

  5. The constitution vote was taken by a mere 42% of the population. The Spanish govt. decreed that ONLY Spanish nationals could vote. The foreign vote here is sizable and the Brits and Germans voted in many Partido Popular (Sp. equivalent of Conservatives) to local govt. in the regions. Zapatero knew the damage the "foreign" resident vote would do to his referendum! Hence a YES vote.
  6. The reason why only 42% of the Spanish population voted is because the result in Spain was a forgone conclusion. Zofo your post also contains a typical piece of anti-EU hypocrisy.

    On the one hand -
    “If we go any further in the this EU malarkey Jose Foreigner will be telling us what to do”

    Then on the other:
    “What’s wrong with Jose Foreigner he won’t let us decent Brits and the boxheads -sorry I mean those fine Germans – vote in his election and tell them what they should think”

    Before you get me totally wrong I will be voting no to the constitution when we have our referendum, but only because it doesn’t contain the necessary democratic safeguards. I would be happy to vote yes if it did.

    A final point, I notice that the same sort of people who complain about British PMs getting to far *********** of US Presidents (Her Majesty the Maggie did it in the 80’s, St Tony of Blair does it today) also tend to be the most anti EU. They also tend to ridicule the EU is an irrelevance, a talking shop that never does anything when problems like Iraq come along. True, the EU is divided we rarely speak with one voice, and on the occasions when we do – Kyoto Protocol – we have no power to back it up. But who (irrespective of the colour of the party in power) is always the first to break with Europe especially if there is a dispute with the US? And in the big picture - dwindling oil production post 2015, global warming, mass movement of populations from south to north, globalised world markets etc, whose real long term interests are served by a divided Europe. That Europe of separate nation states who slaughtered 60 million of ourselves in the last century. And who made a shed load of money before joining the two major conflicts of that century half way through, and each time went away a f**ck of a lot more powerful and richer. No I’m not anti-American. This is just the way the world is, all big powers have done this in the past, including the Britain when we were top dog. Smaller countries can only protect themselves agaist this by banding together. We have a choice 25th state or 51st state or the fat happy and rich Immorality of Swedish/Swiss neutrality.
  7. I agree with Rioja DOC, the vast majority of people in Spain are very happy with the EU, that is why they have none of the bizarre UKIP/Tory Eurosceptic rants that we see in some of the more simplistic press in the UK.

    as for the Spanish not allowing foreigners to vote in the refereundum, makes sense me. After all, imagine the Uk press if the 00s of thousands of overseas visitors here could vote.

    One final point, this so called Eurosceptic british public, dont get that bothered either, how many as a % of voters actually got out of bed in 2004 Euro elections and voted for UKIP? Not very many at all, and I bet UKIP will not win one seat in the next general election, and the tories will get trounced yet again (and I am not certainly not voting labour). This is a non-issue.
  8. Slightly off topic, but I remember having sleepless nights and nightmares as an 11 year old in the early 70s when my geography teacher at school assured us that there was only 5-10 years worth of oil left, a new ice age was coming, we would revert to a hunter-gatherer society etc etc. I liked my creature comforts and didn't fancy that at all. I am currently unsure what to be frightened about: global warming; terrorism; immigration; big Europe; little Europe; George W Bush; Vladimir Putin; drugs; Ken Livingstone; Michael Howard; cholesterol; AIDS; the Atkins diet?

    Will signing up to the European Constitution - thus enshrining subsidies for French artisan cheesemakers as a fundamental human right - affect any of this?
  9. No mate, no hypocrisy with me at all. I'm all for the EU (ducks) but having seen exactly what happened where I live and the vast influx of votes, I can only conclude (and follow up what some of the press are saying) why foreigners are not allowed to vote.

    I don't think that the vote was taken as forgone by the Spanish electorate - apart from the papers, there has been no comment or interest whatsoever in this by my mates of their mates. No one has read the blasted constitution and very few people care or understand what it's all about (in my neck of the woods). At the end of the day, for a country that is supposedly pro EU, 42% is a poor showing.
  10. I can see how the Spanish see the EU as a shining light of pluralistic democracy, but then they were under a fascist dictatorship until the late 70s. However, we have one of Europe's longest standing liberal, common law democracies, and thus many people in the UK see the EU as leading to the destruction of this and direct rule from Brussels by unelected Commission members.
  11. The Continentals have a completely different mindset to us on the whole EU thing. I watched the Euro bandwagon arrive in town (literally) a few years ago when I was in Belgium. It arrived, put up a big stand in the town square, told everyone the Euro was a "Good Thing" for a few days, then packed up and moved on to the next town.

    The locals simply accepted it all a face value, with no discussion and certainly no resistance to the idea. Then again, the Belgian frank had only been around for about 160 years, as had the nation state, so perhaps there was no sense of loyalty to the status quo.
  12. We (as in the vast majority of brits) have a completely different view on europe compared to continental europe. We have had to resist umpteen attempted invasions by our neighbours over the last millenium, and as such we still have the island mentality ingrained in our psyche (not that tha is a bad thing).

    I think we should still be involved in the leadership of europe but not allow the buearocrats in brussels to take over controlling the everyday running of our country. We should retain a degree of seperation from federal europe in order to keep some impartiality, whilst maintaing a strong relation with the US. That way we can have the best of both worlds and remain as the important link between the spams and great unwashed that is europe. :twisted: