Discussion in 'AGC, RAPTC and SASC' started by TheTruth, Dec 27, 2002.

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  1. Anyone else have any opinions about this.

    Work your nuts off for three years.

    Year 1.    Get graded Well Above Average (A) and strongly recommended for promotion.  Get posted to another unit.

    Year 2.    Get graded in first year in new unit Well Above Average (A) and strongly recommended for promotion.  Placed in top third of rank in unit by CO.

    Year 3.    Due to the change in the grading goalposts (2002), drop to Above Average (B) and due to the pecking order of grading adopted by the unit you happen to be serving in, end up languishing in the middle third of your rank according to the CO, instead of the top third, where the A grade (you would normally have received) would have placed you.

    This may seem a bit of a personal gripe however I know many others who perceive this the same way.  When  being graded against Infantry contemporaries in the same unit it is a bit of a kick in the nuts to end up in the same bracket as some of their ceilinged wasters knowing the momentum of my performance has not lapsed in any way.  

    Trumpet blowing I may hear you say, well until this year I had non-AGC reporting officers saying I was doing alright.

    Any other takers? :-X
  2. Totally agree with your views but, have you also noticed that no-one else seems to be getting graded this way. My Bde has adopted this policy wholeheartedly but visits to Worthless Down and subsequent chats with others still reveals everone else getting A and O grades. Were does this thleave us? ???
  3. In my unit, an 'A' grade is referred to as the 'Ford Escort of ACRs'.........as just about everybody has one.  You'll get one whether your up to it or not, which sort of rules out having to try to hard.  We even have a merit board six months before the promotions board, where it is  decided who's getting promoted and who isn't, which sort of rules out trying at all for the second half of the year doesn't it?.  

    Irrespective, even when your 'rated' in the upper quarters, you are still not guaranteed promotion.  Loses me how they work it.

    Then again, who said life was fair (or logical)? :)

  4. Mmmmmmmm,

    There is bit more to this I think if I understand the revised guidelines correctly, and to allay the fears of the orginator of the thread.

    Grades for the AGC have to be cleared by the 3rd RO who is the lead AGC offr for the Bde or Div. This now prevents the overgrading that was occuring before, and in particular allows the 3rd RO to correct any over or udergrading comments made by the 1 and 2nd RO.

    It is quite powerful for the AGC to have the 3rd RO (who is normally an AGC Major) overwriting comments made by a Lt Col as CO, so I think the checks and balances are in place.
  5. Soldier_Why

    Soldier_Why LE Moderator

    Exactly right Ram, all AGC soldiers wherever serving (or whoever with) must now have an AGC officer's input on their CR.

    As an afterthought, 3 years ago I received an A grade recommendation, 2 years ago I received an A grade recommendation and last year I received a B grade recommendation and I was selected on this year's board.  Just proves the system works if everyone follows it.

    P.S.  And I'm really cr*p at what I do - scraping the barrel anyone? ;D
  6. I am sorry to have to say this but to be graded means that you are worthy of being promoted.
    The new system is crap as it ties the hands of people that deserve the grades.

    In civie street they wouldnt say, oops sorry the grades we are giving you are to much, the unions would jump down their throats, as this would slow the promotion of someone that should be promoted.  The unions would then either start legal action or industrial action.
    Why change something that works and has done for many years.
    we must remember that our own officers need promotion, and to be seen abiding by an unjust system they will be seen as an upcoming person needing promotion.  Do you know any officer in your unit that this reminds you of?

    You can see those hard pressed officers sat round the table drinking coffee, trying to decide from the many that deserve promotion.  Gone are the days of soldiers just letting the world go by and still remain in the job they are doing for 22.  We work hard for our grades as we dont wont the brown letter coming through the post!
    Please give them something different than chicken bones in the promotion and promote on merit!
  7. Another individual who thinks that their opinion must be fact.  Sorry to disappoint you, but that is total bo**ocks.  Go and have a chat with your local CPM (civilian personnel manager) and they will tell you that is exactly what has happened to the civil service this year and not at the behest of the managers, but the Unions.

    Individuals who do not get promoted and think that they should have only see part of the big picture - ie. their own ACR.  The promotion board see all those which have a positive recommendation.  The relevant MCM Div know how many vacancies there are and therofore how many to promote.  With a few exceptions - those who deserve promotion, get it. Those who don't, don't.
  8. thanks for that oracle!  having been a shop steward (GMB) in civy street i have been in on these meetings involving, management and workers.  

    This is a forum where they take the management to arbitration, due to them having been put forward for a higher grade by the middle management and then the directors decide that they cannot be promoted to a higher pay level!  

    I will agree with what you said about if they deserve it they will be promoted!  It is the middle management that knows the employee and not the director, who has never seen the person and cannot have the hind sight on what this person can do for promotion.

    So if you listen to a military point of view in regards to civilian employment, go ahead and get a life!
    Try being in civy street and see it first hand.  The people you are talking about are in the system and are not impartial.

    If you had read what i said about people trying to be better and trying not to get a brown letter, you wouldnt have sprouted c£$p about something you dont appear to have any knowledge about.  

    I dont have a soap box but you appear to.  Its people that bring these subjects in for proper return that need a decent reply and less negative returns.

    So apart from all that are you now going to sit down and put the brews on :)  
  9. If you read what my post said you would have realised that I refer only to what I do know about - the Civil Service.

    1.  I was civilian before I joined - and who said I am not now ?
    2. What the f**k are you talking about?

    I most certainly don't have a soap box, but I have just had a look at all of your posts and it's nice to see that you are quite balanced - a chip on both shoulders.  Can't understand it myself - an RMP who can't stop whingeing - a rareity if there ever was - NOT. Also see point 2 above.

    Two sugars?  - I prefer a pint myself - what's yours?
  10. I do like someone the quotes all the time! come up with something original instead!

    So what if i am RMP i dont really care if i do have a chip or two on my shoulder.  Its condesending people like you that only use the capbadge to put people down :).  

    Why you must be really bitter and twisted!

    Sorry dont have any lime for your pint!
  11. Is there any plan to publish a list of grades by Brigade or Division to see where the highest grades are coming from.  Personally I think it is a good idea to have a proper policy but only if it is monitored properly.  

    The RLC had it first though as far as I am aware.

    Nowadays if you are an O Grade you should be able to turn water into wine and similar feats.  Lots of them in our Corps - honest !! ;)  ;)
  12. Hmmmm my Chief Clerk managed an 'O' and trust me, it should stand for 'O my god he's awful'.  Water into wine...?..., more like lemonade into piss.  What he does do extremely well is use other peoples ideas, rim to the right people, say 'Yes colonel' an awful lot and go home smack on 1630.

    Bitter, me?  Never........ (OK, maybe sometimes...)
  13. Call me a bitter old cynic if you will, but you've just described nearly every ex-RAOC staff clerk I've ever met in the AGC. ;D
  14. A list is published for each Bde and Div. Indeed the senior AGC(SPC) offr has to ensure that there is a proper spread of grades to prevent overgrading. Unit COs have to clear their grades with this senior AGC offr before the CR is written.

    Grades are always a difficult area no matter what the Regiment or Corps. Sadly not everyone is at  the top of tree and the Army has the difficult job of identifying who the best people are to ensure they are promoted and provide the best service. In the civilian world remember there are no CRs and whilst there are always faults with any CR system, at least the Army tries to get some objectivity into their promotion system rather than a boss just promoting someone because he is a 'good egg'.
  15. MonnyPenny,

    Many moons ago when I was a clerk, an old chief Clerk of mine never took credit for the action of another.  On the few occasions when I had a bright spark of an idea the Col would say "well done Chief Clerk.." to which he would reply that it was not his bright idea but Pte Bulls, which would embarrass me to hell but more importantly promote me in the eyes of the boss and also the Chief in being a good man manager.  I have wherever possible used this approach and found it still works, shame your CO does not see through him.