Conduct After Capture / Resistance Training

#1
A long one :( , apologies at the start!

In 3 Parts.

Why is it that so many units 'Prone to Capture' do the decent thing and under 'Duty of Care' add a touch of realism to their training by ensuring their men and women are put through realistic (a real as possible) CAC/RT practical training?

Why then, when RMP CP Teams work in all the worlds sh*t holes, but specifically areas where orange jumpsuits look bad on TV have RMP taken away CAC/RT practical training from their operators? It was brought in due to the threat of capture whilst working in 'isodets' in Africa, where it actually happened for real in 1999 (correct me if I'm wrong?) . I would have to argue that the threat is far greater in places like Baghdad now?

Finally, teams now get the bog standard Op TAG, 40min + CAC Hostage Briefing (an excellent brief - but nothing beats a practical exercise in anything you do), due to people in authority within RMP/CP deciding CAC practical training is cr*p, based on nothing more than their own personal opinion. Other unit's putting their people through it would disagree I think? Invariably these people haven't done a practical exercise (and won't be deploying anywhere dangerous soon) and therefore are in no position to comment/take this sort of decision (surely?). CP Teams are working in the frontline in all areas, especially Afghanistan and Iraq. Why shouldn't they get the best training available?

A long one I know, but I know someone who instructs this subject and he also finds it incredulous that the practical side of this training has been denied to RMP CP Teams. :evil:

What are other people's thoughts on this, either specifically where CP is concerned or generally where the rest of the Army (if you've been through it how valuable was it and is it an eye opener?) is concerned?
 
#2
Perhaps they feel that if RMP are captured, then all they have to do is reveal they are RMP and then professional courtesy will kick in and they will be excused torture, abusive questioning, harrassment and faked confessions by their captors?

Just a thought...
 
#3
What are other people's thoughts on this, either specifically where CP is concerned or generally where the rest of the Army (if you've been through it how valuable was it and is it an eye opener?) is concerned?
ICATQ Sir....... :wink:
 
#4
Cuddles you've been watching too much of 'The Bill' me thinks or maybe 'Red Caps'!

As for Harry_Webster...neither could I!
 
#7
Outstanding said:
Its because they don't know anything!!
Have to disagree here. CP is the only time I can remember being told anything and everything of relevance or not as the case may be, due to the persons life depending upon what you do or don't know...now working in a normal unit and/or away from operational CP, well never a truer comment has been typed!

Many's a day I've felt like a mushroom...
 
#8
Why waste more money on monkeys??
 
#10
Probably because they think that your average, run of the mill CP bloke could fashion a blade out of sliver of his own radial bone, cut his bonds, wait for the guard to bring him his bowl of diced camel shite before silently strangling him betwixt thumb and fore finger, be out the cell door (whilst clubbing the guard dogs to death with a can of Grecian 2000), dazzle the guard tower with your mirror shades, leap the 14 ft high razor wire topped fence whilst shouting "kiss my hairy bean bag jonny foreigner" and be away before you were ever asked a question?

And all that whilst still looking fabbo for that centre spread in the next copy of 'big boys in leather boots'......
 
#11
Lantern_Swinger said:
CP Teams are working in the frontline in all areas, especially Afghanistan and Iraq. Why shouldn't they get the best training available?
Since when did the insugents in Iraq or the Taliban in Afghanistan keep anyone alive long enough for them to use their CAC or R to I training?
 
B

Biscuits_AB

Guest
#12
Apparantly Hezbollah have 2 RMP CP hostages. They've told the Israelis that if they don't stop bombing the sh*t out of Lebanon by Friday, they're going to send them back over the border.

Israeli attacks stepped up a gear last night.
 
#13
Classic Biscuits...out to you..

Hello Jonny 956, you need to use a hat in this sun...or else you need a reality check!!

As for the real issue, well if you get to the stage in your career where you are fit for CP training and posting, and CAC is a closed book to you, well then it was probably a bloody good lunch when they promoted you!
 
#14
Maybe they are expected to do the descent thing if captured and put a 9mm between there eyes.
 
#15
Filbert Fox said:
Lantern_Swinger said:
CP Teams are working in the frontline in all areas, especially Afghanistan and Iraq. Why shouldn't they get the best training available?
Since when did the insugents in Iraq or the Taliban in Afghanistan keep anyone alive long enough for them to use their CAC or R to I training?
Fair point - but why should anyone get it based on this?

Jonney956, can I have a pint of what you're on, you should be writing for TV not ARRSE! :D
 
#16
We actually train for war, usually war is between 2 armies, regular armies usually do the decent thing and torture you to get info and then hand you back at the end. So CAC and R to I is needed by prone to capture troops.

As seen recently when the insurgents in Iraq captured those 2 septic soldiers, they tortured them out of nastiness and lobbed off their heads, CAC and R to I not a requirement.
 
#17
Considering that the last set of conflicts and wars that the British Army have been involved in have been located in Iraq and Afghanistan and before that Sierra Leone, Kosovo and Bosnia, I think what you say is flawed.

I agree with your point, but I don't see where the Army is going to fight and if it's soldiers are caught, that they will be tortured and just handed back after a bit of R 2 I, once the surrender has been agreed!

We have become the world's police force. We still have a force in Sierra Leone and will have for at least another 4 years and what I'm trying to say is that what we get caught up in is not conventional warfare anymore. We still leave people in these dodgy countries, whilst moving on to the next punch up, elsewhere...

So you're right, 'Prone to Capture' troops should be trained, but quite where we will be fighting the sort of war you suggest and should receive CAC training for, is anyone's guess...
 
#18
We just fought a war in Iraq against a regular army, captured troops were returned.

CP personnel working in the now insurgent riddled Iraq really dont need CAC training.
Sierra Leone, Afghanistan, Iraq (now) are not conflicts in which we are up against Regular Armies, ICATQ will not work with these combatants.
 
#19
Filbert Fox said:
We just fought a war in Iraq against a regular army, captured troops were returned.

CP personnel working in the now insurgent riddled Iraq really dont need CAC training.
Sierra Leone, Afghanistan, Iraq (now) are not conflicts in which we are up against Regular Armies, ICATQ will not work with these combatants.
You mean WE returned any captured troops, after a bit of R2I. Try telling that to the RE SSgt & LCpl who were captured, then executed!

All PTC troops should be practically trained, the experience is not a good one, but enlightens you as to what may go on if you are captured. Why should there be descrimination as to whether this group or just that group should get it?

I agree with your second comment, the 'Green Big 6' won't work, which is why PTC troops receive the hostage brief and why they are encouraged to build rappour with their captors. I get the impression you haven't been exposed to this side of CAC training? The theory is it keeps you alive long enough to be found and rescued, not necessairily as long as Terry Waite though!
 
#20
Lantern_Swinger said:
I get the impression you haven't been exposed to this side of CAC training
you get the wrong impression then.
 

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