Concerning rifle magazines and ammunition issued to Cold War era British Forces.

ugly

LE
Moderator
#41
:eek: 80 rounds seems rather... stingy. Please tell me that the British army handed out more mags for active operations.
No, the fifth as explained was held by the CQMS. You were issued bandoliered ball for war issue and I dont think anyone actually only ever had just their issued magazines! We were careful in picking fights with naughty people we had supplied with weapons!
 
#42
Standard IDF infantry load out for those armed with the Galil in the 1980's was 8 x 35 round Mags. During my last 6 months on ops I signed on another 2 which I kept with the gat fixed together on a double clip - 350 rounds in all. For operational reserve service in the ensuing years we were issued 7 x 30-round AR type magazines (which we would fill with 29 rounds each)
 
#44
One has to look at different eras. The SAS patrols going across the border on Claret patrols in Borneo, for instance, were carrying (from memory... don't force me up into the attic looking for the book) four magazines plus that on the rifle. Imagine an SF patrol going in on those scales now.

'Harry McCallion' who did some time with the Saffers' Recces in the 1970s before going to Hereford made the observation in his book that Them took a long(er) time to catch up with what he considered to be the minimum round-carry for 'modern special forces operations'.

Often, I think, we look at some of this stuff and see what used to be done as rather quaint. At the time, it was seen as reasonable. A whole multitude of things apply - bolt action versus automatic, what was expected in terms of marksmanship, heavier calibre rounds and so weight, and so on.

On the face of it, 80-100 rounds and each one a carefully aimed man-stopper should probably be considered a good day's work.
 
#45
Often, I think, we look at some of this stuff and see what used to be done as rather quaint. At the time, it was seen as reasonable. A whole multitude of things apply - bolt action versus automatic, what was expected in terms of marksmanship, heavier calibre rounds and so weight, and so on.

On the face of it, 80-100 rounds and each one a carefully aimed man-stopper should probably be considered a good day's work.
Indeed. Back in the day we were expected to put a hole through the middle of a Figure 12 at 600m.

Imagine the carnage if we'd been using live instead of blanks.
 
#46
Wrong on both counts.

WW2 German infantry had pouches for 60 rounds. Bandoliers were not common and are mostly seen with Fallschirmjäger and other "speshul" types.

British infantry riflemen scales varied a bit during the war, but you can basically divide it up into early and late:

Early: 50 rds bandolier for the rifle, 2 BREN mags of 30 (at least one early pam had 3 BREN mags for some bods in the section, but the early war "platoon attack" training film has everyone with 2 aside from the section 1IC cos of his Thompson).

Late: 50 rds bandolier for the rifle. 2 BREN mags of 28, and another 50 rd bandolier for refilling BREN mags. In an emergency, BREN mags were also to be refilled from the 50 rds intended for the rifle.
I’m pretty sure the German soldier wore two, triple ammo pouches, each individual pouch of which carried 15 rounds.
 
#47
Had to be Harry Potter to squeeze the SOP 7 into the 58, but we did it.
 
#49
PE 4, that would be before it got it's sexy Hollywood name?
 
#50
One has to look at different eras. The SAS patrols going across the border on Claret patrols in Borneo, for instance, were carrying (from memory... don't force me up into the attic looking for the book) four magazines plus that on the rifle. Imagine an SF patrol going in on those scales now.

'Harry McCallion' who did some time with the Saffers' Recces in the 1970s before going to Hereford made the observation in his book that Them took a long(er) time to catch up with what he considered to be the minimum round-carry for 'modern special forces operations'.

Often, I think, we look at some of this stuff and see what used to be done as rather quaint. At the time, it was seen as reasonable. A whole multitude of things apply - bolt action versus automatic, what was expected in terms of marksmanship, heavier calibre rounds and so weight, and so on.

On the face of it, 80-100 rounds and each one a carefully aimed man-stopper should probably be considered a good day's work.

Several folk on here not SF who participated in Claret ops... carried a heck of a lot more than the ammo scale you quote.
 
#52
I’m pretty sure the German soldier wore two, triple ammo pouches, each individual pouch of which carried 15 rounds.
Wrong war.

By WW2 each pouch only carries 10 rounds.
 
#53
WW2 pouch:



WW1 pouch:

 
#54
How many mags did men receive if they were issued an M16?
AR15 (Not M16) and I carried eighty rounds of M193 on Banner.
Mixed AP, Ball and Tracer.
First magazine was twenty five AP with five tracer at the bottom (for van shoots) the rest ball with a smattering of tracer. One last magazine was my “only ten left” twenty rounder.

The issue 5.56 magazines were odd looking with a riveted front.
 
#55
In Iraq and Afghanistan we carried a minimum of seven 30 round mags usually downloaded to 28 rounds
In 1CAVDIV baghdad 2004-05 Infantry Miminum basic load was 15x30 rd mags of 30 rds and a further 15 in assault packs on the vehicles, More if you could get it. My Unit was given British 5.56 in Kuwait (also UK 7.62 link) and had to use it for 4 months before US M855 showed up (our .50 which was all AP /API/API-T was in huge brown crates with the old USAAF insignia stenciled on them.
 
#56
In 1CAVDIV baghdad 2004-05 Infantry Miminum basic load was 15x30 rd mags of 30 rds and a further 15 in assault packs on the vehicles, More if you could get it. My Unit was given British 5.56 in Kuwait (also UK 7.62 link) and had to use it for 4 months before US M855 showed up (our .50 which was all AP /API/API-T was in huge brown crates with the old USAAF insignia stenciled on them.
With my MI team in Amarah, back in 2011, our six mags were carried in the 3 double mag pouches strapped to our IOTVs plus the seventh in our M4's.

How were the 14 mags carried?
 
#60
N.I operating from BBK - 2 x rifle grenades, plus 4 magazines of 30 mixed AP, tracer and ball.
Iraq and Afghanistan 5.56 - 7 magazines of 30 mixed ball and tracer, 2 bandoliers (300 ball), 2 grenades, 9mm - 7 magazines of 12 and a box of 50 (because it was looking lonely in the ISO).
 

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