Comrade Corbyn to the fore - whither (or wither) the Labour Party?

Not really. He has done immense damage to the labour party that's going to take years to recover from. Assuming they can ever come back to what they were, instead of a party of minorities encouraging division.
You make a compelling argument.
I don't understand why people want Labour to be entirely non-effective. I don't want them in power, but I have always believed that for us to have a strong, accountable government we need a strong (NB: Not needlessly obstructive, which is sadly often what happens) opposition to keep them in check.
 
I don't understand why people want Labour to be entirely non-effective. I don't want them in power, but I have always believed that for us to have a strong, accountable government we need a strong (NB: Not needlessly obstructive, which is sadly often what happens) opposition to keep them in check.
You are absolutely correct, an opposition which doesn't just oppose everything just because but who offer constructive criticism and who support the government in word and deed, not just words, when there is a national crisis. It's been a few years since we've seen anything like that unfortunately.
 

Trans-sane

LE
Book Reviewer
You are absolutely correct, an opposition which doesn't just oppose everything just because but who offer constructive criticism and who support the government in word and deed, not just words, when there is a national crisis. It's been a few years since we've seen anything like that unfortunately.
Would I be off if I suggested 75-80 years?
 
I don't understand why people want Labour to be entirely non-effective. I don't want them in power, but I have always believed that for us to have a strong, accountable government we need a strong (NB: Not needlessly obstructive, which is sadly often what happens) opposition to keep them in check.
Trouble is an non-ineffective Opposition stands a bloody good chance of eventually getting into power, and then it all turns to shit.

Also I wonder if the general failure of the Lib Dems and Labour at current, is not the symptoms of one of our periodic realignments in parliamentary parties.
 
Trouble is an non-ineffective Opposition stands a bloody good chance of eventually getting into power, and then it all turns to shit.

Also I wonder if the general failure of the Lib Dems and Labour at current, is not the symptoms of one of our periodic realignments in parliamentary parties.
The internal wrangling in Labour and the LD's only served to exacerbate the 'realignments' I suppose?
 
The internal wrangling in Labour and the LD's only served to exacerbate the 'realignments' I suppose?
Well the only constant I can see is the Conservatives. First you had Whigs, then Labour, then Lib Dems and Labour. At current Labour's main problem is the lack of focus. For 75% of the last century you had the Socialist Vs Capitalist, and the focus on the "Working man."
Well now the down trodden masses have been lifted and no longer oppressed. That leaves Labour with no voter base.
It is interesting how the Tories have morphed though. Most of the Uplift for the population was from them, and that was likely in the interests of maintaining power. Much Like what happened with UKIP eroding their position, eventually it became to great to resist and the Referendum was granted. I think we're seeing the Tories morph again into a Centre Slightly Right party. But that leaves the Lib Dems and Labour an amorphous squishy mass that needs to be reformed again. Perchance its a parasite, it needs to latch onto some cause to give it form. At the moment its flailing around searching for that form. The Benefit class is a non-starter, The Minority classes is also a non-starter, which leaves...?
 

philc

LE
Well the only constant I can see is the Conservatives. First you had Whigs, then Labour, then Lib Dems and Labour. At current Labour's main problem is the lack of focus. For 75% of the last century you had the Socialist Vs Capitalist, and the focus on the "Working man."
Well now the down trodden masses have been lifted and no longer oppressed. That leaves Labour with no voter base.
It is interesting how the Tories have morphed though. Most of the Uplift for the population was from them, and that was likely in the interests of maintaining power. Much Like what happened with UKIP eroding their position, eventually it became to great to resist and the Referendum was granted. I think we're seeing the Tories morph again into a Centre Slightly Right party. But that leaves the Lib Dems and Labour an amorphous squishy mass that needs to be reformed again. Perchance its a parasite, it needs to latch onto some cause to give it form. At the moment its flailing around searching for that form. The Benefit class is a non-starter, The Minority classes is also a non-starter, which leaves...?
As a collective, the Urbanites, a group of young white socialist liberal types aligned with those off spring of the Windrush generation, pockets of dissatisfied immigrants from places like Pakistan, Somalia, and parts of Middle East. Public sector workers and students.

Not enough to win an election, now or ever.
 
As a collective, the Urbanites, a group of young white socialist liberal types aligned with those off spring of the Windrush generation, pockets of dissatisfied immigrants from places like Pakistan, Somalia, and parts of Middle East. Public sector workers and students.

Not enough to win an election, now or ever.
That's at current, as you say will never win an election. But as people of quality look at Labour and realise there is no hope, will they join and become MP's of the future? You think the current lot are bad, give it 20 years.
Or will it die out, and thus be reformed?
 

philc

LE
That's at current, as you say will never win an election. But as people of quality look at Labour and realise there is no hope, will they join and become MP's of the future? You think the current lot are bad, give it 20 years.
Or will it die out, and thus be reformed?
I think they have one more election to lose, after that election if they dont purge the permanently outraged Student types of MPs or Councillors then they are done for. Corbyn has sown the seeds of permanent opposition, either deliberately or stupidly.

Then either a third Centrist Party taking seats in places like Southampton, Bristol, Plymouth etc and dying Labour stuck in London etc.
 

Cold_Collation

LE
Book Reviewer
I think they have one more election to lose, after that election if they dont purge the permanently outraged Student types of MPs or Councillors then they are done for. Corbyn has sown the seeds of permanent opposition, either deliberately or stupidly.
There are those who see him as stupid and those who see him as some incredibly capable manipulator.

Personally, I think he's an intellectual mediocrity who's so blinded by ideology as to render himself incapable of action beyond contrarianism, one who made his party not just unelectable but an object of dire comedy to anyone with even a semblance of a grasp on reality.

A wash-away shít-stain on the pavement of history.
 
The real problem Labour faces is that at core Liberals and Conservatives are not that dissimilar. Change that must come, comes when it is an imperative and when it's seen as beneficial for investors. The concept of hard manual Labour is pretty much done now with the advent of labour saving machinery. Quite frankly given the current situation Britain is starting to see the weakness of outsourcing capability to potential enemies- and China is rapidly becoming one and the Possibility of Sanctions against China must be set to rise.

There will be the obvious cost implications but the PLP is only the face of the TUC. That can just as quickly shift.
 
Ever since Magic came out of his allotment shed and hit the world scene, we have debated on arrse the possible emergence of a Social Democratic Party of Labour Soc Dems, Blairites and Red Tories, plus elements oif the Limp Dems and left leaning pro EU Tories, this did not happen. There was for a few weeks, Change UK ,but that has crashed and burned. Perhaps the split will be on Labours left? Momentumites, lefties plus BLM and other fringe groups? Will never be a party of government but could possibly one day hold power in case of a hung parliament? May be they could look to RoI where the Shinners are now the formal opposition.

Or perhaps the emergence of an Islamic Party? that would probably cook the Lab goose for good. The fight could be over the Lab brand name and of course the Unions bungs, wedges and wonga.
 

Dread

LE
This is the future of Labour:
Claudia Webbe. MP for Leicester East, having taken over from the washing machine salesman Jim Vaz.

Thick as pigshit: typical of the quality of the majority of Labour MPs.
 
As a collective, the Urbanites, a group of young white socialist liberal types aligned with those off spring of the Windrush generation, pockets of dissatisfied immigrants from places like Pakistan, Somalia, and parts of Middle East. Public sector workers and students.

Not enough to win an election, now or ever.
Don't forget all the 3rd sector workers that are voting fodder for the Labour machine, and the non working underclass

They can count on the Islamic vote for now, but only until they can field a party of their own

So really their core vote is dole scroungers and people in non jobs
 

offog

LE
This is the future of Labour:
Claudia Webbe. MP for Leicester East, having taken over from the washing machine salesman Jim Vaz.

Thick as pigshit: typical of the quality of the majority of Labour MPs.
That was hard to listen to. I could only manage half of it.
 
This is the future of Labour:
Claudia Webbe. MP for Leicester East, having taken over from the washing machine salesman Jim Vaz.

Thick as pigshit: typical of the quality of the majority of Labour MPs.
Jesus F'ing Christ. Thick doesn't even begin to cover it.
 
This is the future of Labour:
Claudia Webbe. MP for Leicester East, having taken over from the washing machine salesman Jim Vaz.

Thick as pigshit: typical of the quality of the majority of Labour MPs.
With MP's like that .... in the style of Private Fraser " There DOOMED I tell ya DOOMED "
 

Londo

LE
This is the future of Labour:
Claudia Webbe. MP for Leicester East, having taken over from the washing machine salesman Jim Vaz.

Thick as pigshit: typical of the quality of the majority of Labour MPs.
Perhaps her brain was cold and she couldn't think straight without that ridiculous thing on her head .
 

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