Comrade Corbyn to the fore - whither (or wither) the Labour Party?

[psychobabble]

People are confusing a supply chain and supply contracts with the provision of most services, even then some NHS services have been outsourced for years. Surely best value for money is the ultimate goal while providing the best healthcare possible. So if this is paying 2p per tablet from one supplier outside the EU or paying 30p for the same tablet inside the EU, what is the best value to us the Taxpayer. This goes for cleaning, maintenance etc. etc. the money saved should be ploughed back to frontline services, but seems to be directed to Managers wages and bonuses.

A hospital chief exec isn’t on all that much money for the size of business that he/she runs, which may have a budget of over £700mn a year. Private sector CEOs with a similar budgets tend to be on way more.

 

[re-stilly]

But it's more than that.

Many Trusts have had moratoria on recruitment in place for quite some time.

A friend used to run the physiotherapy outpatients section at my local trust. She had enough work on to merit the recruitment of a whole new team but wasn't allowed to.

She could, though, use bank staff - that's people provided at a premium cost by an agency, just in case anyone is in any doubt.

So, you could argue that half of outpatients physiotherapy had effectively been privatised - under Labour, I might add.

So rather than employ someone full time or on a limited rolling contract (6-12 months), we the Taxpayer pay over the odds for NHS staff.

 

[re-stilly]

A hospital chief exec isn’t on all that much money for the size of business that he/she runs, which may have a budget of over £700mn a year. Private sector CEOs with a similar budgets tend to be on way more.

Yes that is private, run by shareholders or other investors. This is a Taxpayer funded SERVICE not a business and therefore the head honcho should not be earning more than the PM. Wo is in fact running a multi-trillion pound business if you want to go down that route.

 

[mush_dad]

even then some NHS services have been outsourced for years.

Pathology services: Viapath

www.guysandstthomas.nhs.uk

However some folk just don't like the idea that someone somewhere will turn a profit from such services, even if it does make the service cheaper.

 

[Slime]

Deleted.

 

[Londo]

View attachment 434548

Photoshop ?

 

[mush_dad]

This is a Taxpayer funded SERVICE not a business and therefore the head honcho should not be earning more than the PM.

Why not?

We have school headmasters earning more than the PM. If you pay peanuts you'll just attract monkeys

 

[wrinklyone]

Photoshop ?

Obviously this one is pukka gen, unlike some of the 'photos' posted on here.

 

[re-stilly]

What should be the thing here is:

1. Is the NHS free ..answer Yes
2. Is the service contracted out - as long as you get it free as per the NHS and it provides good care and value for money where is the problem.

 

[Oyibo]

Photoshop ?

Microsoft Paint

 

[re-stilly]

Why not?

We have school headmasters earning more than the PM. If you pay peanuts you'll just attract monkeys

I am of the same opinion about School heads as well, no public servant should be allowed to earn more than the PM end of story. The money saved should be ploughed back into the service it is meant for.

 

[Cold_Collation]

You describe agency staff imho.

Doh, yes. I've amended accordingly.

So rather than employ someone full time or on a limited rolling contract (6-12 months), we the Taxpayer pay over the odds for NHS staff.

No. Effectively, we pay over the odds for private staff. I know what you're driving at, though - we pay over the odds for an 'NHS' service.

 

[Excognito]

Bringing in some decent Leadership is a good first step, look at some of the quality teaching being allowed to blossom in well lead schools in the “Educating Yorkshire” type programmes.

Then wait a year or so and see the Head disciplined on some “right on” charge such as calling an idiot “an idiot”. Many of the decent staff that have supported and been supported by him/ her subsequently leave. I had my suspicions as to why until I met a parent Governor at one such school.

The huge majority of the kids were switched on by the new regime once they got their head round the concept of being responsible for their own behaviour. In this school it took just one who wouldn’t sign up. She enlisted mummy (daddy was long gone) and they then went on what this Governor described as an “organised recruitment campaign” of the failing teachers, all of whom were sat in jobs / pensions that they saw were now under threat.

They got him.

The kids had woken up to the fact the Head had handed them a free pass out of the ghetto. They loved him for it.

And right there is part of the problem. Leadership doesn't just stop at the Head; it goes further up the chain. And another part of the problem is the lack of moral fibre that many will show in countering such undermining behaviour.

In addition, there does seem to be a tendency to overreact to things instead of trying for a more balanced perspective. Difficult when your children are involved, but I don't remember many, if any, parents round my way stopping their children from playing outside when the Moors Murders were happening ... in fact, now I think about it, I do recall being asked to play outside quite a lot at the time.

One teen lass playfully flung her arms round him in the playground one day and you can guess the rest.

In today's zeitgeist, the correct thing to have done would have been to get down to the local cop shop, along with any video, and have her charged with sexual assault.

--------------------------

Oddly, I wonder if there was any kickback from parents because their children's attitudes were changing? Whilst most people are pleased with good results from their children, some may find it threatening for a variety of individual reasons.

I remember speaking to a behavioural psychologist who primarily dealt with brain-damaged children. He said that he frequently saw parents withdraw their children from treatment once it began to work. Distressing as it was for the parents to deal with a low-capability child, they'd kind of got mentally used to the routine; the increased needs for interaction with and mental stimulation from their children disturbed this routine, making it, paradoxically, harder to cope with.

Kids at the opposite end of the capability spectrum can often find it difficult to talk to their parents about anything academic - back in the day, being 'clever' would probably get you a clip round the ear. So, I imagine it might be difficult to cope with your children going from "This is small. That one is far away" to "Hey, Mum, we learned how to triply-integrate a spherical cow today!".

 

[re-stilly]

Doh, yes. I've amended accordingly.

No. Effectively, we pay over the odds for private staff. I know what you're driving at, though - we pay over the odds for an 'NHS' service.

Exactly, one that could be easily overcome with better retention of staff in the first place which leads me back to the over paying of NHS bosses, and the waste in general of the NHS. The lack of joined up thinking when it comes to IT projects is a prime example, where billions is flushed down the toilet though over ambitious projects and projects where those involved keep moving the goal posts. The supply chain seems to lack basic checks against fraud and waste, this is something the Private sector excels in but the NHS seems to refuse to even contemplate re-structuring or the possibility it could be wrong.

 

[Cold_Collation]

Exactly, one that could be easily overcome with better retention of staff in the first place which leads me back to the over paying of NHS bosses, and the waste in general of the NHS. The lack of joined up thinking when it comes to IT projects is a prime example, where billions is flushed down the toilet though over ambitious projects and projects where those involved keep moving the goal posts. The supply chain seems to lack basic checks against fraud and waste, this is something the Private sector excels in but the NHS seems to refuse to even contemplate re-structuring or the possibility it could be wrong.

You start from the wrong place.

The NHS is sacrosanct and anything it does or anyone who works within it are beyond reproach. It must be preserved* as is.




*For some reason the word ‘fossilised’ came quickly to mind.

 

[Cold_Collation]

In today's zeitgeist, the correct thing to have done would have been to get down to the local cop shop, along with any video, and have her charged with sexual assault.

Where have we got to where a child’s spontaneous act of affection is immediately sexualised?

How absurd.

As you note in a different way later in your post, some people scream enlightenment but are in fact harshly opposed.

 

[mush_dad]

The lack of joined up thinking when it comes to IT projects is a prime example, where billions is flushed down the toilet though over ambitious projects and projects where those involved keep moving the goal posts.

I have significant experience of working in NHS IT. I've not seen 'billions' flushed down the drain. In most contracts I've worked on they've been either playing catch up (as IT has over-sweated assets), compliance lead, or have a clear value adding purpose for the organisation. Those billions just aren't there in the first place. I'm not denying there's poor governance, usually as a result of over-promoted and under led NHS staff who are immune to the best practices that come in from the private sector, but all NHS organisations will be subject to audits eventually and any project that flushes billions down the drain would be identified and the CIO or CCIO be given their P45.

The only time I've seen a mahousive waste of money was as a result of the likes of Accenture schmoozing Tony Blair and convincing him that Connecting for Health was a great idea. Now that was a true money pit

 

[javaguzzisti]

Where have we got to where a child’s spontaneous act of affection is immediately sexualised?

How absurd.

As you note in a different way later in your post, some people scream enlightenment but are in fact harshly opposed.

I left the Army in 1986. Over Christmas I was walking to the pub at dinnertime and I saw a 5 yo girl obviously out on her krimbo present bike proper bike without training wheels. Mum was on her bike behind.
The girl made eye contact as she struggled to stay upright so I gave her a thumbs up.
She tried to give one back so I said, 'keep both hands on the handlebar, you are doing fine'.
All perfectly innocent from my pov but the look I got off her mother was murderous.
Oh well, welcome to the UK I thought.
Oh and look at some of @Bravo_Bravo 's more stupid insults at me.

 

[javaguzzisti]

The only time I've seen a mahousive waste of money was as a result of the likes of Accenture schmoozing Tony Blair and convincing him that Connecting for Health was a great idea. Now that was a true money pit

If that is what I think it is I used to know the owner.
Not corrupt so much as totally amoral.

 

[Mighty_Blighty]

The only time I've seen a mahousive waste of money was as a result of the likes of Accenture schmoozing Tony Blair and convincing him that Connecting for Health was a great idea. Now that was a true money pit

In my, albeit limited experience, anything involving Accenture is doomed to failure. They have taken banal bureaucracy and turned it into an art form. I have to deal with them fairly regularly, and it still amazes me, the crap they come out with - that's if you are lucky and gets someone who speaks a few words of English.

Sorry for the thread drift!