Comrade Corbyn to the fore - whither (or wither) the Labour Party?

Quite a lot of Conservative MPs actually belong in a Social Democratic Party but the only way to get their nose in the trough was via the Tory Party. It should be fun if the Independent group survive to contest an election and actually win some seats. As long as May is replaced by a real Conservative hopefully a repeat of the cock-up Cameron - Clegg nonsense will not reoccur.
I know one ex Tory MP who used to say exactly that, they'd belonged in the Liberals, but they'd never have any power there so pretended to be a Tory
 
No, that's not what I said. I said that there's always a space for a party which represents a/the minority view. Brexit is but one topic.

I don't want to see a ridiculous number of single-issue parties out there. That's pointless. I'd like to see a small number of well-rounded parties with well-rounded policies. Crucially, those policies should reflect the wishes of the electorate.

I don't think that 'well-rounded party with well-rounded policies which reflect the wishes of the electorate' in any way describes the Labour Party at the moment, howsoever much it stamps its feet and wails on to the contrary. However, I'm not convinced that it's a close-fitting description of the Conservative party, either.

I'm not an overnight supporter of this new 'Group'. It's not even a party. It may yet roll back into the Labour Party, if the Labour Party comes to its senses. But what I am saying is that the views of all should be represented in a democracy - that's what a democracy is supposed to be about.

I hope that makes better sense.
I don't agree for one moment that the views of all should be represented in a democracy. The views of all (insofar as the law permits) should be certainly be articulated, but whether they are actively represented depends, quite rightly, entirely on the electorate and the quality of the advocacy.

As for by-elections for the defectors from both sides; if they're calling for a second Brexit referendum on the basis that the electorate didn't know what they were voting for, which is highly debatable, it seems only fair that they should set the example by agreeing to by-elections on the same basis (or else explain why their electors knew that they were voting for individuals who would rat on their manifesto commitments and jump ship mid-Parliament).

I don't think the defectors have though this through. If they wanted to make this about the state of the Labour Party, they've allowed the agenda to be hijacked by Brexit by letting the Tory folk join them and, if it was about Brexit, they've engineered a situation where they either go along with the government or, in all probability, watch as at least half of their membership (all the ex-Tories and at least two ex-Labour) get their P45s in a early election, in which case the rebellion will be choked off at birth. They've also created a situation where any call for a second referendum will be dispatched to the boundary as cynicism of the highest order.

The mis-judgement and mis-management of the Independent Group is spectacular. Right now it's hard to think how the rebels could have discredited the Remain cause more than they have or sidelined serious issues like anti-Semitism in Labour more effectively. Talk about fighting the wrong war, in the wrong place, in the wrong way and at the wrong time.
 

Auld-Yin

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I don't agree for one moment that the views of all should be represented in a democracy. The views of all (insofar as the law permits) should be certainly be articulated, but whether they are actively represented depends, quite rightly, entirely on the electorate and the quality of the advocacy.

As for by-elections for the defectors from both sides; if they're calling for a second Brexit referendum on the basis that the electorate didn't know what they were voting for, which is highly debatable, it seems only fair that they should set the example by agreeing to by-elections on the same basis (or else explain why their electors knew that they were voting for individuals who would rat on their manifesto commitments and jump ship mid-Parliament).

I don't think the defectors have though this through. If they wanted to make this about the state of the Labour Party, they've allowed the agenda to be hijacked by Brexit by letting the Tory folk join them and, if it was about Brexit, they've engineered a situation where they either go along with the government or, in all probability, watch as at least half of their membership (all the ex-Tories and at least two ex-Labour) get their P45s in a early election, in which case the rebellion will be choked off at birth. They've also created a situation where any call for a second referendum will be dispatched to the boundary as cynicism of the highest order.

The mis-judgement and mis-management of the Independent Group is spectacular. Right now it's hard to think how the rebels could have discredited the Remain cause more than they have or sidelined serious issues like anti-Semitism in Labour more effectively. Talk about fighting the wrong war, in the wrong place, in the wrong way and at the wrong time.
The former Labour gang left their party for different reasons with the only binding issue is their dislike of Corbyn and Momentum. The Tory lot all left because of handling of brexit by May and is very much a case of toys out of the pram.

I don't think this will affect voting in the House as their votes will stay the same as when they were under their respective Whips, i.e. rebels!
 
Does anybody who invested £3 in Jeremy feel they're getting some return for their money yet?
Absolutely; my intent in being a £3 Corbynista was to try and get him into the post (achieved), thereby looking to condemn (no pun intended) the PLP into the electoral wilderness for the next 25 years*. So far, it seems to be working. The day he won the leadership election I clacked a bottle of champagne and 8 cans of beer.

* - It's the least they deserve after the 1997 - 2010 debacle.
 
Imagine how big the fleet of Scouse outrage buses will need to be to contain that

" . . . But senior Labour figures have since complained about the move and comments the ex-Militant man made about Israel.

In a tweet in 2012, he said "Jewish people with any sense of humanity" must condemn Israel's "ruthless murdering"."

Derek Hatton suspended by Labour

Guess all of Liverpool will be boycotting the BBC, then?
 

Auld-Yin

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Degsy already binned again after two days as someone found a Zionist tweet from years back - ******* morons, the lot of them - out of their depth on a freshly mopped floor.
The writers of Yes Minister couldn't have come close to the goings on in Labour and Tory Parties and been taken seriously.

Fact greater than fiction?

Derek Hatton suspended from Labour after two days
 

seaweed

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As I understand it, Labour's two Jewish leavers left for quite different reasons from the other six.


The fun begins if they all (ex-Lab and ex-Con) want to work together as a group which means choosing a leader and at least the odd policy (maybe very odd) that they all agree on. The only one I can see with leadership potential is Chukka.


Meanwhile back in the Constituencies Con & Lab has to find replacement candidates (having been spared the nausea of no-confidence votes etc.), in the Lab case choosing the most demented Commies they can find who I hope are toxic to the broad electorate. There may be people who haven't been Sectioned who think Anna Soubry's marvellous but I doubt it.
 

Auld-Yin

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As I understand it, Labour's two Jewish leavers left for quite different reasons from the other six.


The fun begins if they all (ex-Lab and ex-Con) want to work together as a group which means choosing a leader and at least the odd policy (maybe very odd) that they all agree on. The only one I can see with leadership potential is Chukka.


Meanwhile back in the Constituencies Con & Lab has to find replacement candidates (having been spared the nausea of no-confidence votes etc.), in the Lab case choosing the most demented Commies they can find who I hope are toxic to the broad electorate. There may be people who haven't been Sectioned who think Anna Soubry's marvellous but I doubt it.
Chucky might have the leadership qualities but he won't get a word in edgeways with Soubry gobbing off!
 

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