Comrade Corbyn to the fore - whither (or wither) the Labour Party?

I like his Grandson's reply:

Conservative MP Sir Nicholas Soames, grandson of Churchill, told The Telegraph: "Frankly it's a very foolish and stupid thing to say, surely said to gain publicity.

"I think my grandfather's reputation can withstand a publicity-seeking assault from a third-rate, Poundland Lenin. I don't think it will shake the world."
Soames is pretty good at the one line put down - a bit like his Grandad!
What’s truly disturbing about this is that such an openly Marxist leaning individual such as McDonnell can get so close to the levers of power in this country. I know it’s democracy in action, but come on people, do you really want this third rate politician in charge at the Treasury?
Wake up ffs!
 
This was in reference to Tonypandy which, like Maggie, is catnip to some people.
My concern about this is that he seems to think that Churchill was wrong to stop the rioting miners. This means to me that he believes that violence is a valid political tool.

Sent from my Lenovo TB2-X30F using Tapatalk
 
My concern about this is that he seems to think that Churchill was wrong to stop the rioting miners. This means to me that he believes that violence is a valid political tool.
It's still a contentious ongoing debate as to whether he was right in using the Forces of the Crown to break a strike on behalf of the pit owners or not. There is considerable bitterness in the valleys even after all this time and the councils dare not name any streets after him.
 

Grownup_Rafbrat

LE
Book Reviewer
I like his Grandson's reply:

Conservative MP Sir Nicholas Soames, grandson of Churchill, told The Telegraph: "Frankly it's a very foolish and stupid thing to say, surely said to gain publicity.

"I think my grandfather's reputation can withstand a publicity-seeking assault from a third-rate, Poundland Lenin. I don't think it will shake the world."
How interesting that he didn't start a hue and cry to get McDonnell sacked! Imagine the fuss if Bevan, Miliband pere, Brendan Cox or some other Labour grandee had been similarly 'insulted'.
 
My concern about this is that he seems to think that Churchill was wrong to stop the rioting miners. This means to me that he believes that violence is a valid political tool.

Sent from my Lenovo TB2-X30F using Tapatalk

It is - When he agrees with the people doing it

it isn't when its the wrong people
 
If it wasn't for the fact this idiot is shadow chancellor, I would find it funny. This is the man who thought it was hilarious to wave Mau's little red book in parliament.
I doubt he will even be a footnote in the history of Britain, unlike Churchill.
 

Cold_Collation

LE
Book Reviewer
My concern about this is that he seems to think that Churchill was wrong to stop the rioting miners. This means to me that he believes that violence is a valid political tool.
What you are witnessing is Whataboutery at the highest level. He's picking one incident out of an extraordinary life and using that, and only that, as his measure of the man.

Churchill did other questionable things across his life. But in the round history should judge him well. That doesn't fit well with the Dave Sparts of the world, however - Churchill was Establishment and the Establishment must be be dismantled and replaced.

Be assured that McDonnell and his ilk would be far more brutal should they deem it necessary and circumstances allowed it. And he also chooses to ignore the far greater excesses of his political heroes.

Hypocrite.
 

RZer0

LE
Is this the same Churchill that spoke about a creating a National Health Service at the end of the war, funny how Labour never mention anything about this.
 

Cold_Collation

LE
Book Reviewer
Is this the same Churchill that spoke about a creating a National Health Service at the end of the war, funny how Labour never mention anything about this.
Labour works very hard to perpetuate the myth that it, and only it, created the NHS. Both the Liberals and the Conservatives had plans for an NHS which were far better developed than Labour's at the end of WWII.

But...Nye Bevan. Yebbut... Nye Bevan.
 

Blogg

LE
My concern about this is that he seems to think that Churchill was wrong to stop the rioting miners. This means to me that he believes that violence is a valid political tool.

Sent from my Lenovo TB2-X30F using Tapatalk
Oh no, only "Direct Action".

 

Auld-Yin

ADC
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Reviews Editor
To be fair to McDonnell, something he is often not willing to do for others, he was set up by the interviewer who asked him for one-word responses and then fired names at him, one of which was Churchill. As a dyed in the wool communist McDonnell was only going to answer one way - and the interviewer knew that. This is more about getting publicity for the web-blog that set up the interview.
 
I would have thought being condemned by the likes of McDonnell would be a ringing endorsement of the fact an individual had done the right thing....
 
It's still a contentious ongoing debate as to whether he was right in using the Forces of the Crown to break a strike on behalf of the pit owners or not. There is considerable bitterness in the valleys even after all this time and the councils dare not name any streets after him.
Tonypandy is one of the most depressing examples in the UK of historical illiteracy.

It is well acknowledged that there are two sides to every story. Indeed there are. In the case of Tonypandy, we could call them "fact" and "fiction." Almost from the time "it" "happened" (both in quotation marks advisedly), the Labour Movement and the people of South Wales (largely led by the LM) chose the side of fiction.

What the average person in the valleys thinks they know about Tonypandy could most charitably be described as bollocks. Churchill was criticised at the time *by the establishment* and in the national press, for *not* using the troops. He got it in the neck for telling the local authorities that he thought it was a bit unnecessary, which is why he actually sent the (unarmed) Met in the first instance. Almost all contact was between the strikers and the Met. Where the troops were involved they were preferred by the strikers because they thought they were fairer dealers than the local (Welsh) police.

To crown it all, none of this was so much about strike breaking as about stopping a riot.

But you can't tell anyone in the valleys that - the truth is off limits because a lie has been sanctified. They learned it at their father's knee, their grandfather's knee, and their great grandfather's knee. Who was probably there. It's a famous example in the historian community of a complete unwillingness to look at the facts. As you say, it's impossible to have a rational look at it in South Wales because the locals have decided on a version of reality that departs from, er, reality.

I mean, shades of grey and all that, but how do you deal with a century of indoctrination and get people to acknowledge that what they know, and what their dead ancestors knew, was rubbish?
 
But you can't tell anyone in the valleys that - the truth is off limits because a lie has been sanctified. They learned it at their father's knee, their grandfather's knee, and their great grandfather's knee. Who was probably there. It's a famous example in the historian community of a complete unwillingness to look at the facts. As you say, it's impossible to have a rational look at it in South Wales because the locals have decided on a version of reality that departs from, er, reality.
Indeed! Like Maggie closing all the pits. Except she didn't.
 
Labour works very hard to perpetuate the myth that it, and only it, created the NHS. Both the Liberals and the Conservatives had plans for an NHS which were far better developed than Labour's at the end of WWII.

But...Nye Bevan. Yebbut... Nye Bevan.
Indeed, report commissioned from a Liberal by a Tory PM. Labour was the last party (actually from memory in the run up to the 45 election itself) to adopt the Beveridge Report. Largely because they were worried that there wasn't the money to have Social Security and large scale nationalisation. In the end they fudged it, which is why GPs stayed outside the NHS as private contractors - because the Marshall Aid money was needed for owning coal mines and garrisoning the empire - and they didn't build almost any NHS infrastructure, simply took over what the private charities had built. IIRC the first actual "NHS" hospital was opened by the Conservatives in Swindon in about 1960.

But..... as you say.... Nye Bevan. Yebbut..... Ney Bevan.
 

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