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Comrade Corbyn to the fore - whither (or wither) the Labour Party?

"...to secure for the workers by hand or brain the full fruits of their industry"

This is the same party that insists on the mediocritisation of education, the perpetuation of dependence upon the state and scorns social mobility.

It's possible to gain those fruits if 1) one is motivated and 2) the means of access are facilitated.

Whom are the 'workers' to which he refers? I bet many don't.

Charlatan.
Surely he should have said 'workers and peasants'?
 
The bit that is really scary is the part where McStalin says:

“It will bring in the expertise we will need,”

REally? Expertise wants paying at a commensurate level. For example, one of my friends is one of only a dozen people left in the UK who knows how to design the rigs to pull high voltage power cables into place. He designed the gear that pulled the power cables into the tunnels for the 2012 Olympics.

He retired in 2014 age 67 after suffering a bout of ill-health. Since that date he has been asked to return to work on no less than five occasions, the last only a few weeks ago where he was offered, in his own words, "a ridiculously high hourly rate" which he refused on the basis that his health is worth more than the money.

In the Labour Socialist Tax and Spend paradise I presume that experts will be recruited to work "for the good of society" and will be paid the same wages as the bloke who cleans the bogs.
 
On the contrary, 'Corbyn, the Working Class Hero' belongs in the same delusional bucket as Theresa May launching a coup. All together now:

"The people's flag is deepest red,
I've got these voices in my head."

Are you at Labour's current basket-weaving session in Liverpool?
You forgot to add,

The working man can kiss my arrse
I've got the foreman's job at last.
 
Are you going to balance your rant with a quick review of the increase in debt under Brown, particularly due to PFI and public sector pension liabilities, or are you going to make an idiot of yourself by insisting that it was all the fault of those awful bankers?

Tory austerity was how we paid off the national credit card which Labour had maxed out buying your vote.
It was all the fault of those awful bankers. Only a banker would say otherwise. he 'credit card' has not been paid off at all,but the credit limit has been trebled. And you think I'm delusional...

But I am an idiot pointing out the lie about thousands of people dying in NHS hospitals at a time when the NHS had never been better. Reality Nil Bullshit One in your world. It was no rant. It was statement of actual fact that has got you back-peddling furiously.

And as for vote buying, I did not vote from 2003 till 2017. I take it Tories got your vote. What did you get in return for it? How has austerity enriched you or made you safer or secure?
 
Beat me to it, but said it far better than I could., ad hominems aside! :smile:

To @Mothman.
Of course waiting lists came down under the last Labour Government, as they literally shovelled money into the NHS. It didn’t make this behemoth any better though, due to its top heavy management and wasteful practices, which continue to this day.
If Corbyns lot get in, it will be repeat and rinse, but on a much grander scale; which the inevitable next period of Tory austerity will find almost impossible to sort out, as we are likely to be in the same mess as Venezuela.
Instead you think it better to shovel more money into the coffers of irresponsible banks and debt interest, because the bank is 'too big to fail'?

More like the bank has the Tories in their pockets.
 
I take it Tories got your vote. What did you get in return for it? How has austerity enriched you or made you safer or secure?
They got my vote, because the alternative was completely unthinkable in my mind - Milliband first up, followed by JC and his acolytes. They will get my vote the next time around for the same reason. The Tories are far from perfect, admittedly, but if you believe Corbyn, McDonnell, Abbott, McCluskey (pulling the strings) will enrich us and make this country more safe and secure, I have to disagree strongly with you.
 
It was all the fault of those awful bankers. Only a banker would say otherwise. he 'credit card' has not been paid off at all,but the credit limit has been trebled. And you think I'm delusional...

But I am an idiot pointing out the lie about thousands of people dying in NHS hospitals at a time when the NHS had never been better. Reality Nil Bullshit One in your world. It was no rant. It was statement of actual fact that has got you back-peddling furiously.

And as for vote buying, I did not vote from 2003 till 2017. I take it Tories got your vote. What did you get in return for it? How has austerity enriched you or made you safer or secure?
I am a little surprised that people dying in hospital is a surprise to you unless for some reason you think only well people go into hospital.

As for you not voting, only those who vote have a right to complain.
 
I am a little surprised that people dying in hospital is a surprise to you unless for some reason you think only well people go into hospital.

As for you not voting, only those who vote have a right to complain.
No complaints from me prior to 2010.
 

Auld-Yin

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The bit that is really scary is the part where McStalin says:

“It will bring in the expertise we will need,”

REally? Expertise wants paying at a commensurate level. For example, one of my friends is one of only a dozen people left in the UK who knows how to design the rigs to pull high voltage power cables into place. He designed the gear that pulled the power cables into the tunnels for the 2012 Olympics.

He retired in 2014 age 67 after suffering a bout of ill-health. Since that date he has been asked to return to work on no less than five occasions, the last only a few weeks ago where he was offered, in his own words, "a ridiculously high hourly rate" which he refused on the basis that his health is worth more than the money.

In the Labour Socialist Tax and Spend paradise I presume that experts will be recruited to work "for the good of society" and will be paid the same wages as the bloke who cleans the bogs.
The "expertise" is not to run companies or provide skilled labour but to bring in the expertise required to socialise the nationalised companies. From the Politburo, sorry, Treasury, other works committees will be set up reporting to the Politb Treasury this brings real control to the wonderful Central Party. Comrades all will be good under the Great Leader!
 
No complaints from me prior to 2010.
But you are complaining about the time after and didn't vote, so it must be your fault that the country had a Tory/liberal government.
 
Apologies if someone has posed this semi-serious question before.
Suppose this bunch of muppets got in by freak of circumstance. Would you accept the result and watch the belters destroy the country or do something to stop them?
 
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But you are complaining about the time after and didn't vote, so it must be your fault that the country had a Tory/liberal government.
Yes. Austerity is all my fault. But unfortunately, I and millions of others couldn't get behind the watered down Thatcherism of an angry and disappointed Blairite or the one after who had difficulty eating a bacon sandwich and whose policies were only slightly less austere than the Tories.

Opposition parties should oppose, not collaborate. Politics is interesting again and democracy will be better for it. Perhaps that's why some seek to subvert it by making all politics homogenous again. This is not to advocate extremists, but we have extremists in government now. How did they get in if the British, allegedly, do not vote for extremists? Where does this extemist agenda come from?
 
McDonnell has said that shareholders in nationalised companies may not get compensated for the loss of the shares the government take. As this will take money from the greedy bankers who would complain?

Just had a quick look at those who own shares in Thames and Severn. 13% of Thames is owned by BT pensions and 30% of Severn is owned by asset and investment management companies like Standard life, Legal and General and Black Rock all companies who have large ISA funds that people put their savings into.
 
The BBC nails McDonnell's plans -

Let's take just one company - bumper dividend-payer Shell. Ten percent of its £12bn annual dividend comes to £1.2bn.
If each of its 6,500 UK employees got £500 each (totalling £3.25m) that leaves £1.116bn for the government. That's just from one company - every year. Wow.
That single example is why business thinks this is a whopping tax in a not-very-good disguise.
The changes to company behaviour would be hard to predict. But in the case of Shell, it could follow Unilever by scrapping its dual Anglo-Dutch structure and moving to a single HQ and listing in Holland.
Not forgetting that the £500 per worker would be taxed, with around £125 of it going to the government which is another £800k+
 
Yes. Austerity is all my fault. But unfortunately, I and millions of others couldn't get behind the watered down Thatcherism of an angry and disappointed Blairite or the one after who had difficulty eating a bacon sandwich and whose policies were only slightly less austere than the Tories.

Opposition parties should oppose, not collaborate. Politics is interesting again and democracy will be better for it. Perhaps that's why some seek to subvert it by making all politics homogenous again. This is not to advocate extremists, but we have extremists in government now. How did they get in if the British, allegedly, do not vote for extremists? Where does this extemist agenda come from?
Can you point out the extremists in government please.

On a very small scale I was one of those who the last labour government throw money and for short term gains. Most of which was wasted because it was always short term.
 
Yes. Austerity is all my fault. But unfortunately, I and millions of others couldn't get behind the watered down Thatcherism of an angry and disappointed Blairite or the one after who had difficulty eating a bacon sandwich and whose policies were only slightly less austere than the Tories.

Opposition parties should oppose, not collaborate. Politics is interesting again and democracy will be better for it. Perhaps that's why some seek to subvert it by making all politics homogenous again. This is not to advocate extremists, but we have extremists in government now. How did they get in if the British, allegedly, do not vote for extremists? Where does this extemist agenda come from?
Extremists in government? What planet are you on? Incompetents yes, but are you seriously quaking in your boots that we live under the merciless iron fist of Theresa May and Phil Hammond?

As for the job of the opposition it is to provide a credible alternative government with the potential to be elected, which even the biggest jezza fanboi cannot really believe this shower are doing.
 

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