Commonwealth Recruiting Tap Turned On Again

D

Deleted 60082

Guest
I was in DNR/OES1 from 1981 - 83. Five year residency was the rule then, as I used to respond to letters from aspiring Commonwealth candidates, many of whom would have been snapped up if we had been given the chance. Lots of keen young Saffers, Kiwis and Aussie guys and gals.

If you're referring to a DCI that was implemented in 2013 well hey, sh1t, bully for you sport - I left MoD in July 2012 and retired the following year.

But the 5 year residency requirement was, from, my personal experience, the norm thirty years ago and bugger all to do with the EU.
I transferred in 1990 - there was no residency requirement then.
 

endure

GCM
GOC FTC reckons up to 70k will apply next year, up on this year.

That many don't get through the system or don't pass the stricter medical standards seems to be internal structure/process/policy dependent, not a lack of willing volunteers

General Ty Urch? Why do so many Army officers have such weird names?
 

Brotherton Lad

LE
Kit Reviewer
General Ty Urch? Why do so many Army officers have such weird names?
Isn't it a mix of Irish (as in Tyrone) and Old English for a spring?

After all, the bloke who established Sandhurst was one John Gaspard Le Marchant whose father had served with the Swiss Guards in the army of the King of France.
 
They are still required to sit the citizenship exam.
Good point, well,presented .....and my Moosus did the CT last month....failed miserably, and after reading through the guidance info and typical questions myself , I reckon, appx 90% of British born citizens would fail it too as the test is bolloxs, not relevant, and an utter scam purely based on trying to chisel money out of people, much like the Policing Cert, much of the CSCS ,SIA shite and the 10 year photo driving licence too.

and she also pays an NHS surcharge of appx £1000 per year.

Her re test is in December, which is also when her resident permits runs out and also needs renewing, another 1k or so.

Considering that we have just gotten back from Nigeria after the costly experience of burying her Mum, my next moosus will be from fecking Catford ( possibly more black chics in Catford too? ;-) )

Fees for citizenship applications and the right of abode from 6 April 2018

Pass rate

Of the 906,464 tests taken between 2005 and 2009, 263,641 were failed (a pass rate of 70.9%). The results of candidates from countries with a strong tradition of immigration to the UK were variable.

The pass rates for people from Australia, Canada, New Zealand, and the United States were all above 95%. In contrast, the pass rates for people from Iraq, Bangladesh, Afghanistan and Turkey were below 50%.

Analysis of pass rates available for the first 11 months of the new test (from April 2013 to February 2014) show significant variances in pass rate by nationality of origin of those taking the test. For example: Laos 33%, Afghanistan 40%, Syria 67%, Nigeria 69%, India 74%, Canada 95%.

The pass rate for those EU citizens taking the test in this period averaged 86% (Austria 71%, Belgium 75%, Bulgaria 84%, Croatia 92%, Cyprus 83%, Czech Republic 93%, Denmark 95%, Estonia 87%, Finland 86%, France 87%, Germany 91%, Greece 91%, Hungary 90%, Ireland 95%, Italy 92%, Latvia 80%, Lithuania 81%, Luxembourg 100%, Malta 100%, Netherlands 81%, Poland 87%, Portugal 80%, Romania 79%, Slovakia 88%, Slovenia 100%, Spain 89%, Sweden 86%).[16][17][18][19]

Upon completion of the test, candidates are not informed of their exact mark. Successful candidates are informed that they have passed and will be given a Pass Notification Letter that they will have to sign,[20] while unsuccessful candidates learn the topics that they should study further. The test may be taken an unlimited number of times until a candidate achieves a pass. Since its inception, there have been numerous instances of fraud and cheating on the test.[
 
Why? What's the problem with people who have lived in the UK for much of their lives, and who are fully integrated into UK society, but who may have dual nationality, or foreign citizenship?
There is none, same as there would be none for any Cannuck, KIWI, Aussies, or someone from a former commonwealth country, once the coup of being a soldier in the British Army and or living in Britian was properly explained to them. It could even be part of their basic training

offcom is just being a knob...however, it is a ridiculous that we need to do this.

Retention to those home grown Toms, recruited in Britain is the key ....why not improve that AND allow the non residency rule to be swerved for those joining up and then be given UK Citizenship after 5 years service?
 
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A few years ago there was drastic cuts in the armed forces with a large culling of Regiments.

Then there was no pay increase for years.

Capita in charge for six years, never hit a recruitment target. Capita, the service, the other services don't use. The same Capita that couldn't generate security for the Olympics.

Then the witch hunt of old soldiers.

And so recruitment and retention has dropped.

So the next plan is to get troops in cheap.
On the plus side, Capita will take so long to process the new intakes, they will have qualified for their citizenship before they arrive at their units.

Targets hit; trebles all round.
 
We could also look - again - at the social security system. I'm 50 next year, and when I joined up the military was seen as a far better economic alternative to the dole. In generations previous, it was even starker - the military was a route to housing, clothes and three square(ish) meals a day.
There's many reasons why people aren't joining up but I doubt there's many 16 - 24 year olds who are avoiding joining the Army (approximate minimum wage £365 a week) for the rock and roll lifestyle of £56.80 a week on the Bru...
 

Goatman

ADC
Book Reviewer
I transferred in 1990 - there was no residency requirement then.
Yeah it was usually waived for serving perss...so a transfer from a Commonwealth Navy such as RNZN or RCN was generally not a problem.

Not least because quite a few Commonwealth (and other) navies back then not only operated pretty much to the RN pattern, but in a lot of instances on common platforms such as the Leander class :





When I was working in DNR, the RN was 66,000 strong.

Source

Royal Navy (Manpower)HC Deb 10 November 1981 vol 12 c71W71W§43.

Mr. Speed asked the Secretary of State for Defence if he will list the manpower figures for the Royal Navy for 1 April 1979, 1980 and 1981, respectively, and the target figures for 1982, 1983, 1984 and 1985.

§Mr. Blaker
The strength of the Royal Navy on 1 April 1979, 1 April 1980 and 1 April 1981 was as follows:


1 April 1979
65,053
1 April 1980 64,3641

April 1981 66,360
As stated in Cmnd. 8288, Royal Navy numbers will be reduced by between about 8,000 to 10,000 by 1986. Figures for the interim years are not yet available.

SOURCE


THE FLEET 1982

Hermes
Invincible
6.82-Illustrious
Fearless
Intrepid reserve -4.82
Antrim
Fife
Glamorgan
Bristol

1st Frigate Squadron6th Frigate Squadron
Ajax [L]
Arethusa
Aurora
Dido
Euryalus
Galatea
Leander
Naiad
Plymouth [L]
Lowestoft
Rhyl
Rothesay
Yarmouth
Torquay
4.82-Falmouth
5.82-Berwick


2nd Frigate Squadron7th Frigate Squadron
Broadsword [L]
Battleaxe
Brilliant
Brazen
Cleopatra [L]
Argonaut
Danae
Minerva
Penelope
Phoebe
Sirius 5.82-
Lowestoft ?


3rd Destroyer Squadron8th Frigate Squadron
Sheffield
Birmingham
Newcastle
Glasgow
Coventry
Cardiff
Andromeda [L]
Achilles
Apollo
Ariadne
Bacchante
Diomede
Charybdis


4th Frigate SquadronFleet Training ships
Avenger [L]
Amazon
Ambuscade
Antelope
Active
Alacrity
Ardent


Londonderry
Juno [conv]


5th Destroyer SquadronReserve Squadron
Exeter [L]
Southampton
5.82-Liverpool
11.82-Nottingham
11.82-Manchester

Eskimo
Gurkha -5.82
Mohawk-12.82
Nubian
Tartar-5.82
Zulu-5.82

( Note: these are all proper war-canoes, not Minesweepers, Patrol boats and Survey craft such as has been the custom since 1997 to inflate answers to Parliament. Apolgies for mis-attribution - pagination messed up)


Older hands will be aware that merely being listed as part of the Fleet doesn't mean a swept up effective fighting unit...the Type 12s were on their last legs by then and we were poised to pass the last of the Tribal class over to Indonesia.

you're talking about a manning crisis in the Army? Check this out : The hidden crisis – Royal Navy manpower

As an interesting yardstick, the RN, a globally deployed force charged with the defence of the nation employs less than 10% of the 310,000 who work for Tesco supermarkets in the UK. 30,000 sailors and marines is simply not enough for the Navy to meet its commitments without over-stressing personnel or leaving billets unfilled.

This can be illustrated by figures for the escorts; the minimum trained crew requirement for the Type 23 Frigates is 2,060, with 180 vacant positions. The Type 45 destroyers require at least 1,010 but are 80 people short.

On average these ships are putting to sea missing about 8% of their required crew, putting additional stress on their ships companies and undermining their resilience.

By design, modern warships are ‘lean-manned’, mainly through automation. It does makes sense to keep the cost of manning as low as possible and put the minimum number of people in harms way. However in combat or when things go wrong, casualties and the lack of available hands for damage control may prove critical. A small crew may run the ship adequately under predictable peacetime conditions but, in prolonged operations, lack of reliefs can result in severe tiredness affecting performance.

What SUCCESSIVE governments of every political stripe have done to the RN in the last 30 years is a BLOODY LIBERTY !

Fortunately there's a handy remedy close by .....take the entire pack of lying weasels out onto Westminster Bridge, lash a bunch of bastards to their feet and THROW 'EM IN THE THAMES ! :pissedoff::crash:

< /off rant> ...and....breathe......Om, om,om
:meditate::meditate::meditate:
 
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and the other 2 services do use Capita in recruiting.

But don't let the truth get in the way of a good rant ^~
Sure? Only I've been listening to LBC, Radio 5 etc, today and they say otherwise.

From Capita's own website.

Defence

"We deliver recruitment to the British Army,"

Odd as they are saying "British Army" and not "armed services" or similar.

What's that about "truth" again?
 

Brotherton Lad

LE
Kit Reviewer
Yeah it was usually waived for serving perss...so a transfer from a Commonwealth Navy such as RNZN or RCN was generally not a problem.

Not least because quite a few Commonwealth (and other) navies back then not only operated pretty much to the RN pattern, but in a lot of instances on common platforms such as the Leander class :





When I was working in DNR, the RN was 66,000 strong.

Source

Royal Navy (Manpower)HC Deb 10 November 1981 vol 12 c71W71W§43.

Mr. Speed asked the Secretary of State for Defence if he will list the manpower figures for the Royal Navy for 1 April 1979, 1980 and 1981, respectively, and the target figures for 1982, 1983, 1984 and 1985.

§Mr. Blaker
The strength of the Royal Navy on 1 April 1979, 1 April 1980 and 1 April 1981 was as follows:


1 April 1979
65,053
1 April 1980 64,3641

April 1981 66,360
As stated in Cmnd. 8288, Royal Navy numbers will be reduced by between about 8,000 to 10,000 by 1986. Figures for the interim years are not yet available.

SOURCE


THE FLEET 1982

Hermes
Invincible
6.82-Illustrious
Fearless
Intrepid reserve -4.82
Antrim
Fife
Glamorgan
Bristol

1st Frigate Squadron6th Frigate Squadron
Ajax [L]
Arethusa
Aurora
Dido
Euryalus
Galatea
Leander
Naiad
Plymouth [L]
Lowestoft
Rhyl
Rothesay
Yarmouth
Torquay
4.82-Falmouth
5.82-Berwick


2nd Frigate Squadron7th Frigate Squadron
Broadsword [L]
Battleaxe
Brilliant
Brazen
Cleopatra [L]
Argonaut
Danae
Minerva
Penelope
Phoebe
Sirius 5.82-
Lowestoft ?


3rd Destroyer Squadron8th Frigate Squadron
Sheffield
Birmingham
Newcastle
Glasgow
Coventry
Cardiff
Andromeda [L]
Achilles
Apollo
Ariadne
Bacchante
Diomede
Charybdis


4th Frigate SquadronFleet Training ships
Avenger [L]
Amazon
Ambuscade
Antelope
Active
Alacrity
Ardent


Londonderry
Juno [conv]


5th Destroyer SquadronReserve Squadron
Exeter [L]
Southampton
5.82-Liverpool
11.82-Nottingham
11.82-Manchester

Eskimo
Gurkha -5.82
Mohawk-12.82
Nubian
Tartar-5.82
Zulu-5.82

( Note: these are all proper war-canoes, not Minesweepers, Patrol boats and Survey craft such as has been the custom since 1997 to inflate answers to Parliament. Apolgies for mis-attribution - pagination messed up)


Older hands will be aware that merely being listed as part of the Fleet doesn't mean a swept up effective fighting unit...the Type 12s were on their last legs by then and we were poised to pass the last of the Tribal class over to Indonesia.

you're talking about a manning crisis in the Army? Check this out : The hidden crisis – Royal Navy manpower

As an interesting yardstick, the RN, a globally deployed force charged with the defence of the nation employs less than 10% of the 310,000 who work for Tesco supermarkets in the UK. 30,000 sailors and marines is simply not enough for the Navy to meet its commitments without over-stressing personnel or leaving billets unfilled.

This can be illustrated by figures for the escorts; the minimum trained crew requirement for the Type 23 Frigates is 2,060, with 180 vacant positions. The Type 45 destroyers require at least 1,010 but are 80 people short.

On average these ships are putting to sea missing about 8% of their required crew, putting additional stress on their ships companies and undermining their resilience.

By design, modern warships are ‘lean-manned’, mainly through automation. It does makes sense to keep the cost of manning as low as possible and put the minimum number of people in harms way. However in combat or when things go wrong, casualties and the lack of available hands for damage control may prove critical. A small crew may run the ship adequately under predictable peacetime conditions but, in prolonged operations, lack of reliefs can result in severe tiredness affecting performance.

What SUCCESSIVE governments of every political stripe have done to the RN in the last 30 years is a BLOODY LIBERTY !

Fortunately there's a handy remedy close by .....take the entire pack of lying weasels out onto Westminster Bridge, lash a bunch of bastards to their feet and THROW 'EM IN THE THAMES ! :pissedoff::crash:

< /off rant> ...and....breathe......Om, om,om
:meditate::meditate::meditate:

I've a funny feeling that Crash was a crab and not Navy.
 
Yeah....and I used to work in the Dept of Naval Recruiting back in the 80s - and the five year Residency rule was seldom waived back then, don't know about last week.

@Ninja_Stoker would be able to tell you how the RN handles Commonwealth applicants in 2017 . eg a 21 year old Kiwi civilian from Auckland who has never lived here.

This does rather smack of 'let's not spend any money ' desperation TBH.
We (RN) actually had a residency waiver available for limited numbers of Commonwealth Citizens for several years since about 2003 to about 2012 - something like 50 a year. Most commonly we seemed to get applications from more affluent countries such as Oz, NZ, Canada, South Africa and Zimbabwe (until it was suspended from the Commonwealth).

More recently, the government from St Vincent paid for us to go over and process applications on several occasions. Similarly the Army was being sponsored to recruit from Fiji & Nepal.

I think the FCO* allowed us to recruit limited numbers of Commonwealth citizens until the Brexit referendum when the government pulled the plug, possibly due to the fact we were bringing non-Europeans into UK, but talking about closing our borders.

This time around the FCO* has come up with the figure 1350, of which 300 will be RN/RM. To get that number into training we'll probably have to process about 1200-2400 initial applicants, I'd guess.



Edit: *For FCO, read Home Office
 
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You really are rather dull and uniformed. I had been on two op tours in the RAF before I obtained my British Subjectcy and was naturalised. I can probably name a dozen other Commonwealth SP who have done the same, or more. And this isn’t new; if you served, I’m sure you encountered Commonwealth citizens serving in the British forces.
Its not the past were talking about, but the future.... The issue here is recruitment in this country, do keep up. Nobody is really bothered about commonwealth servicemen, so long as they aren't a cheap alternative to fixing the problem.
 
Sure? Only I've been listening to LBC, Radio 5 etc, today and they say otherwise.

From Capita's own website.

Defence

"We deliver recruitment to the British Army,"

Odd as they are saying "British Army" and not "armed services" or similar.

What's that about "truth" again?
LBC and radio 5 :) :) :)

RAF RAF 2

Navy

Over to you ^~
 
We have no empire to garrison. So we don't need these volunteers, or should I say mercenaries. If we can't recruit enough british people to serve, then the forces should be adjusted according to what we can recruit and the recruitment policy adjusted to make it easier to join and more rewards to retain staff longer.

Not that anyone at the top takes notice of anything but meeting an immediate target.
A private in the australian defence force earns about 35k a year after phase 2.

Pay & Allowances
 
I just joined this forum after hearing today’s news to see the arrse perspective.

So after decades of turning down lads for not being good enough the MOD now wants to outsoure recruitment because they’ve managed to alienate its core recruitment pool. Then I read answers on here about running the country with Victorian era poverty to get people in or run it like the French legion.
Hilarious.

Hundreds of years of British armed force history reduced to this. I can guarantee you this outsourcing will cost you more in recruitment than what it will gain.
It's'not like there have never been recruiting problems in the past, press gangs for example. The kings shilling etc... They did not start doing that because recruiting was going well.

The aussie approach will sort things out, just pay them well for the job, the rest will ripple down into place.
 
The RN had a long history of recruiting anyone they could get their paws on and sod the nationality issue.
Pretty straightforward really. A thump round the back of the head and when you woke up you found you were already at sea.
 

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