Commonwealth citizen? Begone!

Discussion in 'Army Reserve' started by Dr_Evil, May 24, 2006.

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  1. Why are we turning decent potential recruits away?

    Commonwealth nationals are permitted to join the TA if they have either -

    (a) got permission (ie, a visa) to stay in the UK for more than three years starting from their date of attestation; or

    (b) can stay in the UK permanently for some other reason, such as being a national of another EEA state or being granted "indefinite leave to remain" by the immigration bods.*

    The trouble is, most Commonwealth nationals are here on two-year work visas. D'oh!

    Is that a deliberate Home Office policy decision? Is it aimed at preventing them from joining the Armed Forces, keeping it uder-strength, or would that be just an accidental consequence?

    Not that anyone would ever accuse the Home Office of c*cking things up, mind you.

    *By the way, (b) is my reading of the relevant bit of TA Regs. The ACIO have told me differently (they would turn away those Commonwealth bods who are allowed stay in Britain on grounds of their EEA nationality) but my considered view is, with the greatest of respect m'lud, that they are wrong.
  2. We found that quite a few guys were rocking up because the Unemployment people were pointing them in our direction, without making a distinction between Regular and Territorial.

    Someone on a two year visa is not worth the training time, in a financial sense, as they're taking a recruiting slot that could be offered to someone who is going to be here for more than three years. With the time it takes to get through the recruit cycle, by the time they're trained their visa has run out.

    From conversations with F&C guys who have shown up, they think that being in the TA is going to help them with their visa applications to stay longer in the UK.
  3. I agree there is little point in taking on people who are welcome to these shores for only two years.

    But don't these foreign types extend or renew their visa? I don't see hordes of Kiwis and Ozzies being frog-marched onto chartered flights back to the Antipodes.
  4. Our immigration rules are a nonsense. Commonwealth citizens who want to work should be allowed to stay as long as they like and should be encouraged to join the Army, TA or Reg, if they want to. On the other hand the professional spongers, home-grown or imported, should be f*cked off at the high port.

    There is a current debate in the US about employing mercenaries to fill the gaps that a 30% cut in the US Army has left. Security for US interests in Africa etc. Why not make a simple offer to the commonwealth - Do a good job for 5 (?) years in the Army and earn UK citizenship ?

    On the other hand our own home-grown loafers should be offered an opportunity like - " Male, Fit, under 25 (?) and long term ( 6 months ?) unemployed ? Join up and do a decent job or the dole stops." Failure to get a decent CR = discharge = no/minimal dole.

    Minimal dole idea - a bed in a 12 man room and fed from a communal kitchen. now what does that remind me of...
  5. You forgot their " human rights "...
  6. I agree with the citizenship through military service idea.

    Just to be clear: I want to recruit these Commonwealth types and I don't want bonkers Home Office rules gettting in the way.

    Maybe I should just do as I please? I doubt anyone in the Home Office will ever notice.

    I was hoping that someone reading this thread who is genuinely in the know would be able to confirm whether my interpretation of the rules, as set out in my original post, is right. But it seems that no one can make sense of the rules. No one other than me. As a megalomaniac of some experience, I guess it's time I started making the rules.
  7. But why do you want to spend your hard earned recruiting cash on someone who two years later has finished his course, and is on his way back home?

    Recruit course plus Special to Arm is two years, depending on the time he can commit. Is the indivudual worth all the time and effort, that you could devote to someone who might just stay to the five year point?

    I'd also need to check the deployment rules for someone who is on an education visa, as students tend to get a deferment.

    If this is just a numbers game (which I don't think is where you're coming from), then the people to target for recruitment are those with indefinite leave to remain, or a visa that takes them past the two year point.

    I am cynical about recruiting F&C students into the TA, as my experience has been that they want to use the TA to help them in their case to stay, rather than a genuine desire to be in the TA.
  8. I have, happens more often than you would believe
  9. Een the French have a policy in the FFL do 5 years get citizenship, any reason why we couldn't do a deal like that?
  10. Your post has confused me. Are all F&C people who are here on two-year visas supposed to be here as students? I ask because I had the following query from a fella in my unit: "Two blokes from work want to join but they are only here on the same two-year visa everyone else gets."

    You're probably right to be cynical - but if it gets people in for 4-5 years, who cares whether the reason they join is not due to a genuine desire to be in the TA? I would be happy to recruit people if it enabled their two-year visa to be extended and if they stayed in the TA after the extension was granted.

    In any case, to be fair on the F&C types: we had an Aussie join our unit who subsequently did operational tours in Afghanistan and Iraq. If he wanted to stay, and if people were sensible enough to make me dictator for life (and why oh why is it taking you all so long?), I would let him.